It's okay Mumsnetters slagging the DM off - but it's the only paper that has nailed it re the rioters...

[didyouseewhatshedid]

A few quotes below from Max Hastings - says it all really...

^So there we have it: a large, amoral, brutalised sub-culture of young British people who lack education because they have no will to learn, and skills which might make them employable
...Liberal opinion holds they are victims, because society has failed to provide them with opportunities to develop their potential.
...this is nonsense. Rather, they are victims of a perverted social ethos, which elevates personal freedom to an absolute, and denies the underclass the discipline ? tough love ? which alone might enable some of its members to escape from the swamp of dependency in which they live.^

[Kayano]

Bollocks. The daughter of a millionaire and a TA were caught. Clearly it's bot just about what everyone is telling me it's about.

I'm ignoring all media ATM cos it's utter shite

[Slanted]

Has MN turned into a DM fansite?

[limitedperiodonly]

That would be great if Max Hastings didn't think that of all young people except those in his social class.

I wonder what made the poor man hold his nose and dash off yet another 2,000 words for the simply appalling people who read the Daily Mail? Oh, that would be the money.

[LineRunner]

OP, That is wrong factually. Do have you no will to learn the facts?

[Kayano]

Clearly not - she reads the DM and thinks it's 'spot on' lolage

[working9while5]

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024690/UK-riots-2011-Britains-liberal-intelligentsia-smashed-virtually-social-value.html

Erm, yeah.. because women get somuch out of single parenthood, clearly English culture is superior and fathers, rather than choosing to fuck off out of their kids' lives, are just marginalised by policy. Poor loves.

[OTheHugeManatee]

Perhaps the teaching assistant and millionaire's daughter also grew up in the same culture of absolute personal freedom and zero discipline? Being the daughter of a millionaire doesn't guarantee a moral education, any more than working in a school means ipso facto that someone is a nice person.

I think some of that article's analysis is worth considering. If there's an error it's in limiting the analysis to the underclass. The 'smash and grab, something for nothing, no-one can touch me, no personal responsibility' culture is visible in many areas of society at the moment.

First Capital Connect; Southern Cross; the bonus-receivers in the tottering financial system; the News of the World; and now the kids swaggering and sneering as they're charged with looting and arson. In each case, a sense of people doing what they want, taking what they want, because they can - and what's left of decent society stands, open-mouthed, as it happens.

[ChumleeIsMyHomeboy]

Excellent post OTHM!

[janelikesjam]

I agree with OP and the Daily Mail. Funny thing is, so do most of the criminals!

They know the weak criminal justice system and self-indulgent welfare system is largely responsible for creating this state of affairs.

p.s. can anyone answer why the Labour Party has suddenly become the party of law and order i.e. criticising the government, demanding more police when then have trashed police powers and reputation for decades? it can't be trying to make political capital out of this national crisis, surely, that would be pretty despicable.

[ChumleeIsMyHomeboy]

Labour Party? Despicable? Shome mishtake surely?

[didyouseewhatshedid]

LineRunner, what facts are they? Also, how can it be right OR wrong. It is just an opinion.

[Tortington]

WRONG and you smell of sick

[usualsuspect]

I think that the thread title is the most offensive I have ever seen on MN

[Tortington]

and it smells of sick

[usualsuspect]

it smells of shit

[breaktime73]

oh teehee. Tough love. What would that take the form of- compulsory sterilisation, the recreation of workhouses/forced labour and mass evictions; the end of benefits (for ANYONE, because benefit claimants are all 'scum' innit?).

There is a word for what you and the DM want and it is fascism. Don't be afraid to say it, roll it around your tongue a bit. Why not just come out with it? You don't love the poor; you want to punish them in every possible way, especially the 'breeders' and their scum kids, and hopefully wipe them out.

The really sad thing for you is that the idiotic 'policies' you bay for will not solve any of the problems you wring your hands about, but exacerbate them massively.

[working9while5]

Teaching assistant jobs in schools are VERY lowly paid, find it funny this hasn't been commented on. Some staff get in the region of 6 - 8K a year.

[limitedperiodonly]

I went to a private screening of Master and Commander which Max Hastings attended presumably to dash off 2,000 words he'd written a gazillion times before on Britain's illustrious military history for a tidy fee to keep the orangery going.

He blundered in late, and despite being about 6ft 5ins sat in the front row. He was bewildered when the rest of us told him to get out of the fucking way and stop fucking talking to himself.

I like to think our salty language added a bit of authenticity to his dreary piece about the early 19th century Royal Navy.

[didyouseewhatshedid]

breaktime - would you believe me if I said I was probably left of centre politics-wise, think the rich should be taxed more, and hate what the bankers have done to this country? If it makes it easier for you to try pigeon hole me, however, go ahead.

[didyouseewhatshedid]

Oh, and btw Limited, Hastings - though you may dislike him - is a v good historian. That said, by the tone of your post, sure his work would be lost on you.

[breaktime73]

didyousee, I don't particularly care how you choose to pigeonhole yourself, tbh. I am responding to your OP, not your self-definition. And your OP is repulsive.

[janelikesjam]

They wouldn't understand Didyousee. Everyone who disagrees with them are "fascists". That is the end of the political discussion for them, which says it all.