TO QUOTE Hugh Hefner (bunnyboy ) on sex "monogamy is possible but NOT natural"

[GabbyLoggon]

Do a lot of men think like Hefner? Do a lotof women? Lwets get sserious on the subject Because marriage is losing its domination Never thought Iwould quote Hefner....Butwhat he says is worth discussing

[maighdlin]

ah the typical "im going to shag anyone because i want to and not give a shit about anyone else's feelings" justification. wankers. humans aren't the only monogamous creatures.

[troisgarcons]

I would be most people have had more than one partner. We are not swans, we don't mate for life.

[GabbyLoggon]

Its worth rationalising. a bit. A lot of young men think like Hefner. (Not just giggs) Do they grow out of it when htey make promises to women partners or wives? Women are in the workplace now so more out of bounds coupling will take place.

[pigletmania]

I would have though human being have evolved from the caveman days of shagging anyone and everything, looks like it has not.

[passivelyaggresive]

Based on what evidence does he say that? That a lion will have a hareem (sp) of lionesses or that rabbits shag anything that moves and has a fluffly white tail? fair argument but there are plenty of other animals that mate for life - so that blows that argument out of the water. I think the fact we have long term responsibility for our offspring and we care for them until adulthood dictates that we are monogamous. Strictly from a biological viewpoint, i think heffner is wrong. Did cavemen shag everything and everything piglet? Im not sure they did, i thought there were family units? i dont know

[passivelyaggresive]

"women are in the workplace now" must be a huge distraction for you Gabby

[passivelyaggresive]

Thing is, i think, apart from bonobo monkeys, humans are the only species that have sex for fun - one could argue that that in itself is unnatural. If we are talking biology we should only be "mating" to reproduce, so that again, blows argument out of water - thats the thing with issues like that, you can't pick and chose snippets of information to add to the argument, it all has to be considered.

The society we live in, and most modern societies, dictate that we are monogomous and live, to a degree, in family units consisting of two parents and their children. i know there are deviations from that but on the whole, that is how it is - even step families etc tend to be of that mold. We have evolved into our societies, therefore monogomy, whilst a result of our society, is what we have also evolved to adhere to and therefore is absolutely natural. The urge to fuck everything that moves whilst using contraception is completely unnatural - if hefner were arguing for blanket spreading of your genes then i might listen, but i dare he does, in the word of the great sage, Jeremy Kyle - Puts something on the end of it!

[GabbyLoggon]

Passively....women in the workplace is one of the things which has altered the sex game. (The pillhas been a much bigger influence.)I will do women in business later.....lets stick to marriage and modern relationships for now....( I flirt a lot, but thats as far as it goes) The well poulicised footballers thing is not typical (They are a bit like Hefner) OPEN MARRIAGES? Seen a few on channel 5 TV I cant see those couples surviving. ICELANDIC MEN...it is said they will offer you their wives, if they like you. Tell us another one do..its sounds like codswallop. I think marriage will survive but it will be ina mainority. Which is an amzing change since ~#i was young.

[whackamole]

I thought monogamy was having a single partner at a time, not necessarily one in a lifetime?

According to online dictionary, it can mean either - I am prepared to admit it may not be correct

Personally, I believe one partner in a lifetime is rare and (possibly) unlikely but doable - but I believe in monogamy. BUT....this is from personal experience, I simply wouldn't be able to cope with seeing more than one man at a time!

[Malificence]

If you are, by nature, monogamous then it's perfectly natural.
We've managed to stay faithful to each other for nigh on 30 years with no difficulty whatsoever, you either value sexual fidelity or you don't, it's as simple as that really.
A lot of people don't, or they marry the wrong person in the first place.

I absolutely believe that a person is monogamous because that's who they are, like being gay or straight, unlike another self appointed expert on here who thinks that monogamy is merely a fetish .

[Malificence]

whackamole, for me personally, it's having one partner for the whole of my life, but I think that monogamy also covers mulitple sexually faithful relationships too.

[Psammead]

Monogamy, if we're talking about having one partner at a time with a view to marrying for life with the right one, as opposed to having one partner ever, is perfectly natural for some people.

For others, it is unnatural. I don't think you can take a statement like that and apply it to our whole species just because it fits you. People might say the same for homo/heterosexuality, or any number of sexual practises and preferences.

There is no normal, and therefore debate on what is natural or not is moot.

[GabbyLoggon]

the phrase that it brings to mind is what a randy femaI presenter said to me on air. "I believe in SERIAL MONOGAMY"....a moder times phrase. It meamnt she had had a lotof sex with a lot of men ..And she made no secret of it.

[Psammead]

Sorry. That was ambiguous. I started out making one point and finished making another. Either definition of monogamy can be normal and natural for whoever feels it is.

[DogsBestFriend]

It's only natural to those it applies to. Homosexuality is "not natural" for the heterosexual (insofar as they don't practise it or want to, not that they are on some sort of right-wing moral crusade).

In both cases social mores have evolved over decades, centuries. I suspect that monogamy will, as time passes by, cease to be such a "natural" state and believe that history has already made that point. Before the pill, equal rights/wages, greater social and physical mobility and a whole host of other things monogamy was more common. As lives have changed lifestyles have too.

[GabbyLoggon]

I still think HEF SPEAKS FOR A LOT OF YOUNG MEN, bUT NOT FOR MANY SLIGHTLY OLDER WOMEN....(i ASSUME bUNNY bOY HAS NEVER MARRIED)

[DogsBestFriend]

X posted with Psammead. I'm glad I'm not alone in my way of viewing it. :)

[DogsBestFriend]

Gabby, I'm a "slightly older" woman. I won't go as far as to say he speaks for me but nonetheless I agree with him on this one to a large extent.

[Psammead]

Hmm, hmm...

It seems like 'it's not natural' has two possible, and entirely opposite interpretations.

1. It's unnatural and wrong.
   
2. It's not the only possibility and shouldn't be accepted as the norm.

[GabbyLoggon]

hELLO DOGSBESTFRIEND...Yes, the Pill was the major changer of female cultural attitudes ...But I still dont think women want to bring up children with untrustworthy blokes. A good/funny book from a film star. Brainy and forthright Shirley Maclaine..her Im, Over it book...more candid and credible than the aVERAGE STar...copthe bobbie Kennedy story in her book

[jeckadeck]

I'm severely irritated when people use examples from the animal kingdom to illustrate why we either should or shouldn't be monogomous. This are a supreme cop-out, imho. Like any other thing in life which requires discipline, occasional self-denial and self-control, monogamy can sometimes feel like a waste of time, difficult and unnatural. But so can getting up for work in the morning and few people would argue that we should shelve that just because animals can't be arsed going to work...

[pumpernickel10]

The man gives me the creeps Gabby I don't know any men that think like that sexist pig, he actually makes me feel sick

[GabbyLoggon]

yes, pumper, I would think a lot of women share that attitude keep the faith

[mrsbiscuits]

Personally, if I thought it would be acceptable to DH I would quite like to have recreational sex with men other than him.I love DH to bits but over the years have seriously fancied other blokes. I don't want to risk losing my relationship over it though so I have never been unfaithful. I don't like Mr Heffner or his playboy empire but I do think there is some truth in the fact that people aren't necessarily monogomous by nature.

[Omigawd]

Actually, virtually no other evolved species is truly monogamous (even swans), most cheat to some extent. Humans are in fact more monogamous than many because of the huge effort of raising children. what makes it more complicated for us is we also use sex for fun, and that has got a lot easier with the pill and women entering the workforce and becoming economically independent.

IMO we are seeing these newer facts butting up against much older social norms like marriage. I also think some of the "feckless male" behaviour is as a result of this.