Private diagnosis for schizophrenia?

[YouAreMyRain]

It's me again.
I have posted a similar thread in children's MH on here but there's not much traffic.
I thought some people on this area may (unfortunately) be able to help.

I have two adopted DD. DD1 is 8yo, under Camhs, lots of MH issues. We have had a horrendous few days with her trying to drown her sister (6yo) in the bath and saying that she wasn't angry, she just had a "feeling" that she "had to hold her head under the water until she stopped breathing".
I have spoken to Camhs and PAS, who were considering removing her as a risk to the other children (I have a one yr old DS who she has previously threatened) but have changed their mind.

Anyway, the main reason for this thread is that I am concerned that she is showing early signs of schizophrenia or a personality disorder.

Camhs in our area have said that they would not diagnose either of these until late teens or early twenties as the personality is still fluid until then.

I would be happy to pay privately as she may need meds and specialist treatment etc but I don't know how to find a private child psychiatrist who would do so. Any thoughts?

[Verbena37]

See your other post.....I posted two links

[YouAreMyRain]

Thanks verbena, I have a tendency to be impatient!

[KristinaM]

AFAIK they won't diagnose a personality disorder in childhood . Even if the child is showing every sign of one. Sigh . It's just a question of definitions for them, it doesn't mean that your child Is not troubled or unwell .

I'm not sure how a diagnosis of PD woudl help you anyway, as they will just suggest taking therapies

However it seems to me that your DD needs urgent specialist care now, regardless of her diagnosis . Have you spoken to her psychiatrist about her trying to kill her sibling ? I'm very worried about how you can keep your 6yo and your 1yo safe .

Are they considering admitting her to hospital ? What are SS proposing regarding the safety of the other children ?

[ktwsgirl]

Have CAMHS offered her some therapy or the chance to work with a psychologist about her feelings before removing her and trying to place her elsewhere?

[KristinaM]

I'm not sure if I was clear - you need to get urgent help for her now for her symptoms/ behaviours , and leave any diagnosis until later .

What psychiatrists will and will not diagnose is a matter of policy and sometimes of personal preference . It doesn't say anything about how disturbed an individual child is .

Did you contact the specialist post adoption services I told you about before?

[Verbena37]

Sorry youaremyrain, I read the other post and replied with those websites before I read the part on this thread about your LO trying to drown her sister.
I agree with kristinaM, that you need immediate help for her so to safeguard your other dd and your eldest dd.

Have you told anybody about the bath incident?

[Lilka]

Hello rain I'm not sure anyone can diagnose a PD until late teens/early adulthood because I think (not 100% sure) one of the criteria for it is that the difficulties started in childhood and then continued into late adolescence/adulthood. I think the recommended treatment for lots of PD's are talking therapies such as DBT, which can be hard to access. Schizophrenia could be diagnosed sooner but it's such a stigmatising diagnosis they would need a very strong history of symptoms and they would want to investigate the other possibilities carefully I think.

I'm also very worried for you Rain, and I know how hard you've fought for support which just isn't there. You need more specialist help now and I completely understand that SS aren't doing that, and are probably committed to a course of 'do nothing helpful until the situation is untenable then remove DD'. I don't know whether a private assessment will help there, unless it is combined with serious help for her current behaviour. Have you told anyone about her trying to drown your other DD yet?

[myfallingstar]

Personally I think it's what you hope to a chive from having him labeled in this was

I think may doctors will be very relucant to go along with this which then leaves the label I think you need to think very careful what that may mean in terms of applying for schools collages ECt vs what help is actually a able pre 18

Please don't find me harsh just something to think about

[fasparent]

May not be the answer but could ask LA for short term residential care and assessment, through educational support, This will enable a pause, room
for thought for all. Also may establish true feelings.

[YouAreMyRain]

Camhs and PAS are aware of the attempted drowning. They haven't made a safeguarding referral. Apparently if I bath them separately everything will be fine

[YouAreMyRain]

I didnt contact that specialist post adoption service but I told pas that I wanted a referral to them or ff. They said they didn't want to disrupt DDs relationship with her current psychotherapist

[YouAreMyRain]

I suppose a diagnosis would help me to be confident that DD is getting the most appropriate therapy and help for her. The psychotherapy doesn't seem to be helping much but according to Camhs we're only six months in to a two year process.

[Lilka]

Rain, I've sent you a PM about possible support

[YouAreMyRain]

Thanks.

Yesterday PAS were talking about removing DD and now it's all fine if they are not in the bath together

[Lilka]

Bath them seperately?? Yes I'm sure that will stop DD1 getting feelings that she should kill DD2. FFS.

A 2 year process is all very well and good in theory, but not if DD's behaviour is so disturbed you can't protect everyone before seeing any improvement. 6 months in which nothing changes and you get no extra support isn't good enough.

[YouAreMyRain]

Well apparently "homicidal thoughts about siblings are very common".

[Lilka]

And what about homicidal actions? Are they very common?

Assuming PAS do know that thinking about killing someone and actually trying to kill someone are two different things and you should take the latter bloody seriously

[YouAreMyRain]

She was upset about doing it so she "has a good moral compass and knows right from wrong". So everything is fine! Apparently...

[1ChelseaMa]

can you ask for behavioral support? It's a worrying enough situation to warrant that. You could try to find a behaviorist privately but be careful as qualifications can be dubious out there.

[fasparent]

Would also enquire about the New Adoption Support plan's with your LA this starts in MAY there are also Free assessment's for Children with ?? FASD with long term support, and may be Genetic referral's. (Genetic referral's can be done via your GP too local Genetic clinic may get some kind of diagnosis).
See information of NEW Adoption support plans via //www.first4adoption.org.uk do not think they have published any criteria as yet , but you can telephone first4adoption for advice. , Would say the more that ring the better.
Power !!! behind Numbers.

[fasparent]

Very sorry should read New Adoption SUPPORT FUND not support plan

[fasparent]

Very sorry should read New Adoption SUPPORT FUND not support plan

[fasparent]

Genetic referrals are quite friendly usual for after referral sent, they do home visit's have a good chat discuss child's history, will then assess if
and when appointments will be suitable and beneficial. THIS is how it worked for us with children, also children were diagnosed.
Would be cautious with private assessment's many professionals and many other's do not recognise these including some school's.

[KristinaM]

Your DD needs serious intervention now. She doesn't have 18 months .

Psychotherapy is not the best treatment for children like her . It assumes that she can build attachment to be therapist and then transfer it to you and her siblings .

The most important things is her life right now is not her relathionship with her psychotherapist . It is

1. stopping her doing serious harm to herself or others
   
2. Stopping her placement with your disrupting , because you are her last chance of ever having a family life
   

Please phone these specialist agencies tomorrow and tell them what you have posted here over your various threads

Please email or write to SS tomoroow and put in writing what you have written here

Ie. Dd has tried to drown her 6yo sister. You are seriously concerned about her safely and that of 1yo sibling . Named SW has told you it's not a problem as long as you bathe them separately and that such actions are quite common.

[KristinaM]

You might want to contact your Dd school in writing and tell them too. They need to know to keep your younger child safe ( assuming they are at the same school ) . Be sure to let them know that " named SW" doesn't think its a problem .

Can you tell me if her psychiatrist doesn't think its a problem ? If soplease name him in the letter as well .