Is working full time harming my kids?

[Jraven]

Ok as if I don't feel guilty enough for working, there's a study out today published by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation which says that working full time while your kids are pre-school increases their chances of psychological stress, unemployment and doing less well at A level. What should we do - all pack it in? Where are these mythical part-time, flexi-hour jobs that we have be promised so long? Is the government's policy of getting mothers back to work all wrong?

[Ailsa]

I noticed ASF hasn't come back to respond to any further comments. A one-time posting perhaps?

[Ailsa]

Scummymummy, great comments and great poem. Took the poem to work today, they liked it especially a friend of mine who's expecting her first baby in April.

Is this the biggest discussion so far on Mumsnet? Can't say I've seen one that's taken so long to read!

[jodee]

Blimey, what a lot of mud slinging! And why do people like ASF appear from nowhere to start a riot, then vanish without a trace, hmmm?
I've got a foot in both camps I suppose - I'm a SAHM one week, then a WM the next. Maybe I am selfish, but we just can't live on one salary.
There is a difference between have one's own opinion about childcare, and being judgmental.
And I really can't stand the competitiveness that some mothers have - my cousin is coming down from Scotland next week with her ds (7 months older than my ds) to visit her family and suggests that we must meet up so as to 'compare' the boys. Give me strength.

[chiara71]

Loopyan, I don't think you should be worried about your baby, my niece never crawled and started walking at 12 months, and my sister works f-t, a friend's baby is now 2 and a half and can probably say a couple dozens words most of them only recognisable by his mum who is at home full time.

so what? A doctor told my friend: have you ever seen any adult incapable of speaking? (excluding any physical disabilities of course). Your child will speak when he's ready and may never crawl, but will certainly learn to walk. (and then you'll wish he'd started later!!!!)

As for the W/M SAHM debate, funny how I always thought this was a just a matter of personal circumstances (choice/need), never thought it could be a choice of parenting style.

I agree completely with Scummymum, with her effort to lighten the debate and especially the last comment.

[Lindy]

Confession - my son is 10 months old & I have only just discovered Teleteubbies - & now most mornings I do plonk him down in front of it whilst I read the paper - before we go off to our voluntary work/walk/swimming/shopping/housework or whatever - I suppose this makes me a really bad SAHM! Has to be in another room of course, can't stand it myself!! (NB: is Teletubbies for a baby/toddler any worse than us spending time on Mumsnet?)

Seriously, I think the point about age is quite relevant, as I have mentioned in other threads, I am a pretty ancient mum at nearly 44 and feel very confident in my past career - I certainly got as far as I wanted on the 'ladder' & was very well rewarded in terms of salary, perks, intellectual stimulation (!!) etc. I left, not to have a baby, but to go back to college to follow other interests. I know that I am very lucky to have the 'choice' to stay at home & fully appreciate that others are not so fortunate, & try and make this point every time I add a comment ... but I am wary that we can spend so much time trying to be politically correct on this site that we may miss adding postings.

[ScummyMummy]

[protesting]I like the words "bile" and "vitriol"![/protesting]

Sorry Enid, I'm a bit of an exaggerating posturer on occasion.

My opinion is:
Mum = Good
Stay at Home & Working = Irrelevant

[ScummyMummy]

[protesting]I like the words "bile" and "vitriol"![/protesting]

Sorry Enid, I'm a bit of an exaggerating posturer on occasion.

My opinion is:
Mum = Good
Stay at Home & Working = Irrelevant

[callie]

Guess I can understand that Kia. I suppose I didn't think of it that way. I assumed that the WM's posting here were happy with their position from some of the comments towards sahm's I assumed it was not a sought after ideal for them to stay at home
But I think I can understand that if someone was unhappy with working full time this thread might make them feel worse.
Heres me going on about everyone being at peace with thir own choice so not caring what anyone thinks when all the time they might long to have the choice.
I apologise to anyone in that position .

[robinw]

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[Kia]

I think some people get upset because they don't have a choice, Callie. Having someone say on a thread 'I made the choice to stay at home' or I made the choice to go to work', just rubs salt in an open wound.

[callie]

I totally agree with you Lisav. Isn't that what these boards are for to express our opinions.
Like you say it would be boring if we all thought the same.
I just think some have been offended from these differing opinions but I can't understand why?
There has been just as much said here derogatory towards SAHM's more infact sseing as the majority here are WM's. But it just seems to be the WM's coming out with the sarcastic and bitchy posts.
You keep refering to yourselves as evil?
What is that about ? No where here has anyone been called evil.
It just erodes a sensible discussion into spmething childish and silly.
Like I said in an earlier post if you are confident in your own choices for you and your family . Then it really matter at all what anyones opinion on the web is. How can you be hurt and upset by a differing opinion? You must realise people here will have differnt views to your own.
So what if they dont like nurseries or whatever . Just think Sod them!! Iam doing what I think is right!
BTW just to clarify my stance on this. I do not think working mothers are evil or any worse a mother than Iam.
If a law came out tomorrow banning mums from working full time I would be horrified. Because I srtongly beleive that every women should have the CHOICE to do what they feel is best.
My choice was to stay at home because thats what I feel is best for me and my children. But I do not think any less of a woman who is working. That is nothing to do with me it is everyones own personal opinion.
I just thought I could come on here and give my opinion after all it is the net I thought we could do that here without anyone getting upset in real life.
But I think I'll stick to the fluffy threads from now on!

[Enid]

Croppy, have just looked back over the thread and can really only see a couple of posts about paid working mothers which are pretty extreme. Yes, it is heated, but I don't think it unneccesarily aggressive or, as Scummymummy says, full of bile and vitriol.

[Croppy]

Sorry LisaV but I do think that many of the comments here about the motivations of women who work full time and who put young children into nurseries go beyond the bounds of a healthy, robust discussions and are downright hurtful. As an old time user I din't know where all this aggression is coming from.

[LisaV]

Why is everyone getting so ratty about all of this? What is wrong with having such discussions as these? I cannot see that anyone has been deliberately nasty, and if we all had the same views then life would be very boring. Of course we are all going to have different ideas on parenting and thank God for that!

Rosy - I am glad you weren't offended by anything on the termination thread. You did ask for people's experiences and a lot of experiences were talked about, good and bad. Hopefully that thread might help someone else in the same position. I hope things are going well for you know and that the emotional scars you must be left with are healing

Enid - you did say "even Rosy got some dodgy ones" when referring to the thread on termination, so you must feel that some of those posts were inappropriate?

As for not wanting to go on the Mumsnet meet up, well why not for Heaven's sake? Do you all shy away from debates such as these? This is not insult-throwing, as I see it anyway, but a straightforward debate about SAHMs and Working Mums. I enjoy listening to other people's points of view and I'm not afraid to say if I disagree with them. I'll tell you what, being a SAHM means that I very rarely get to have these 'intellectual' discussions, so it's a joy when you come across such a juicy discussion as this!

[wendym]

I have PCOS. I am fortunate to be one of the ones who has been able to conceive without medical help. However I subscribe to a list on which many women have to face the possibility that they may never have the choice of being any sort of mother. Count your blessings and be a little more tolerant.

[Enid]

Is that the same robinw that told me supportively not to be so ratty?

[ScummyMummy]

Crumbs! Er, I'm speechless. This thread is about double the length it was when I last looked at it. And the vitriol and bile level has risen quite a bit. Uh oh.

Thanks for the compliments on the poem, everyone.

[robinw]

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[SueDonim]

Home schooling?

[Ailsa]

Another 'unnatural' mother here,

Here goes;

dd started nursery at 10 weeks (yes weeks!!) mornings only, looked after by MIL afternoons, as I went back to work full time (the shame of it!).

dd started school, 2mths after her 4th birthday, went to after school club 1 day per week.



there's worse to come;

ds started nursery at 13 weeks (yes weeks again!),
again mornings only, MIL again in afternoons, but this time she had dd and ds.


ds changed nursery at 15months, dd changed after school club at same time. Changed nursery again just before 2nd birthday. Watched on the webcam at last nursery!?!?!?!?!

ds started school at same age as dd (birthdays only 1 week apart). dd and ds now go to another after school club two days per week.

MIL picks both up from school 3 days per week.

What an awful mother I must be, not spending any time with them during the days!?!?!?!

Another thing, I have a picture of them on my desk AND a picture of them as the wallpaper on my computer at work!

As for getting a life, excuse me but I happen to think I have a pretty good life, I get to see my friends everyday (at work - we're more than just colleagues, we work together and socialise together), on our last night out there were 13 of us! Most of us have each others home/mobile phone numbers, BTW out of those of us who go out I am the only one that has children, and has to make babysitting arrangements, even if dh is working his late shift, I wait until he comes home at about 10pm, the kids get to have a late night, and he drops me off at the pub. The babysitting issue isn't really an issue as I organise the nights out on nights when I know that dh will be home (most of the time).

And, finally, I think - some of you might be asking "When does she spend time with the kids?", the answer is evenings and weekends, I help them both with their reading and any homework on week nights, and at weekends, we go shopping, go to the park, occasionally go visit my sister 'up north' etc.

From some of the comments on this discussion I'm doing EVERYTHING wrong. If that's the case, how come dd and ds have turned out to be well rounded children (not just IMO), are happy and sociable.

I love them, they love me, we're all generally happy (yes they do wind me up sometimes - but that comes with the territory). I don't generally take too much notice of what other people say, if they've got a problem with the way I do things, then that's it, THEIR PROBLEM.


A message to those mothers at Pamina's meeting, if they can't bear to leave their little darlings with someone else, how on earth are they going to cope when they start school?

[SueW]

Might as well add my £0.02 then.

DD went to nursery (daycare) for 2 afternoons a week from about 19mo and it was upped to a couple of days a week after she turned 2yo.

I have done voluntary work but mainly I have been a SAHM. My DH has worked away i.e. overseas quite a lot.

DD is now in school. Earlier this week she threw a tantrum as she wants to go into After-School Care and we won't let her. ATM, her dad is not working and I am working part-time, 2pm-8pm. When he goes back to work (and overseas) I would/will have to find something to fill my time so she can go to After-School Care. Okay, there's a Pilates class I could do. And I wouldn't have to rush home from town if I went shopping - but I'd just end up in the rush hour traffic instead.

I know some of the full-time working mums at school feel bad about putting their children into After-School but the other kids are fighting to get there so if any of you are one of those mums - rest easy. Apparently your kids have it best, according to their school friends

[robinw]

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