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Original poster

To inform HT of union involvement?

34 replies

PartTimeTeacher · 13/04/2024 14:32

As not to drip feed, I have been in contact with my union after I was informed that school were forcibly changing my shift pattern following my maternity leave.

As far as I'm aware, the school have no idea that I've got representation for the issue. My union rep has organised a meeting for the tail end of next week to put in action next steps (contacting school governors).

I don't want to blindside my head as ultimately I want to maintain a good working relationship and continue working there. I've been in contact with the DHT about something else entirely and she asked me to clarify if I'd like a meeting to discuss new work pattern.

I'm unsure if, at this stage, I should say something along the lines of:
I'm currently seeking advice from my union in regards to the changes and will be in touch in due course if my representative recommends a meeting.

Or do I just say nothing? I don't want to sour my return and really want a peacful resolution if it's possible. I don't want them to think I've gone 'behind their back' to the union but also know this is my entitlement and should ultimately follow their advice.

Any suggestions?

OP posts:
shuffleofftobuffalo · 13/04/2024 16:50

It's very standard to go to your union about something like this if you're not happy about it. Education is heavily unionised, they won't be surprised.

I'd let the DHT know you would like a meeting but need to consult with your union rep first. You have to tell them at some point unless you're going to accept the changes without challenging it.

Original poster
PartTimeTeacher · 13/04/2024 20:09

@shuffleofftobuffalo, they'll definitely find out soon enough as union rep wants to write to the school governors. I just wondered if I should 'warn' the HT/DHT that they're involved before this happens so they aren't caught off guard. I don't want to be seen as doing anything underhand as I would like to keep my job! 🙈

Edited to say: Thank you for your input! 😊

OP posts:
PensionPuzzle · 13/04/2024 20:25

I'm surprised the union want to go straight to the governors without meeting with HT first, seems weird given that it's a contract-related issue rather than a grievance. Is it the in-school rep or a local officer?

Loopytiles · 13/04/2024 20:28

Y would tell your line manager you’ve consulted the union, and accept the offer of a meeting.

helpfulperson · 13/04/2024 20:30

I would have thought this a school operational issue and outwith the remit of the governors.

Original poster
PartTimeTeacher · 14/04/2024 06:18

Thanks everyone for the input - I'll reply today to say that I'm in consultation with my union and want to would like to discuss changes.

It's a complicated case and the change in hours comes just a few days after my (informal) request to reduce hours was denied by HT. Anyway, the union rep (local officer) wants to appeal the decision and has advised me that would be my next steps. As I'm not sure on procedures etc. I'm following their advice.

OP posts:
rwalker · 14/04/2024 06:28

just be careful some union reps can be a nightmare they just hate the companies we work for and just tell you want you want to hear rather than what can actually be done

You can object to absolutely anything doesn’t mean anything is going to happen though

WonderingWanda · 14/04/2024 06:47

I can't tell from your post. Have you told your head you aren't happy with the change of hours and reminded her of your right to return to the same hours? Or have you just gone straight to the union?

Original poster
PartTimeTeacher · 14/04/2024 07:19

@WonderingWanda, both! I went straight to my union as the head wasn't suggesting any kind of discussion and basically emailed me to say when I return from Mat leave my new working pattern is XXX. I was a bit late in replying to HT as my mental health took a dive after the news and I wanted to be in the right frame of mind before I responded. I have now informed HT that the changes aren't suitable and I'm waiting for a reply (this was just before Easter hols so it's been over 2 weeks without a response - although I don't expect one over the holidays anyway!)

OP posts:
Original poster
PartTimeTeacher · 14/04/2024 07:21

@rwalker, thank you. I'll bear that in mind. I feel really out of my depths so was just following reps advice.

OP posts:
DoreenonTill8 · 14/04/2024 07:23

Apologies if not you....did you initially propose a change you wanted of less hours, they said no, then came back with this and yes we'll change but to this of more hours?

WonderingWanda · 14/04/2024 07:27

I think in that case no you don't neednto I form them of anything yet. Hopefully they get back to you with a sensible response. I think if you send a message about the union it might get their backs up....not that you are doing anything wrong but heads can be funny like that. Await their response and if it is not the outcome you would like, then get back to them with the news that you've consulted the union.

DaftyLass · 14/04/2024 07:31

This sounds super stressful when trying to come back.
Is there a chance of compromise in regards to the schedule change?

Piggywaspushed · 14/04/2024 07:42

I think you should inform them that you have sought union advice. That way they might reflect more on what they have required of you and it could nip issues in the bud.

On the whole, union reps are used to this kind of thing and will know the processes. They are valuable in reminding HTs of rights and responsibilities and have standard paths to follow. I wouldn't heed the PP on this who a) clearly doesn't like unions and b) doesn't seem to be being specific to teaching. Some local union reps do enjoy spoiling for a fight but usually with reason!

Are the changes upping your hours or changing the days?

You could try the website Pregnant Then Screwed for advice.

Lastly, I'd ask MNHQ to move this into Staffroom possibly where PT teachers might be helpful.

Original poster
PartTimeTeacher · 14/04/2024 07:47

@DoreenonTill8, possibly? But I think it's becoming more common in teaching. I've recently read of one teacher requesting 2 days after mat leave, ultimately agreeing to 2.5 though. School then informed them that it'll be all mornings and it was then too late to do anything.

In my case, I requested a reduction in hours, which was declined. After that, they informed me of the changes they were making to my working pattern.

OP posts:
Morph22010 · 14/04/2024 07:47

DoreenonTill8 · 14/04/2024 07:23

Apologies if not you....did you initially propose a change you wanted of less hours, they said no, then came back with this and yes we'll change but to this of more hours?

I remember the original post, assuming it’s the same one. The op asked to reduce hours, the proposal is the same number of hours she was doing pre maternity leave but they want it to be over more days less hours per day

Original poster
PartTimeTeacher · 14/04/2024 07:48

@WonderingWanda, that's absolutely my dilemma. I don't want to get their backs up but also don't want them to think I'm hiding union involvement to suddenly srpring it on them at the last second. I'm finding that it's a fine line...

OP posts:
90yomakeuproom · 14/04/2024 07:50

You said you requested informally to change your hours, has your rep recommended for you to now apply formally using the flexible working policy?

Also is what they are suggesting a change to your contract? Or are you (for example) 3 days PT and they are switching the days?

Back to your question, yes I think you should email the HT and say that the new suggested work pattern does not work for you and you are seeking union advice.

Original poster
PartTimeTeacher · 14/04/2024 07:50

@Morph22010, this pretty much sums it up.

OP posts:
themidimit · 14/04/2024 07:56

My understanding is that your pt contract will state the number of days you will work and not the actual days. Whenever I run a flexible working request meeting I make it clear that days could change. Each year I ask pt time teachers to specify which days they want for the next year but cannot guarantee that those days will be possible. We do our absolute best but there are compromises to make. In a large secondary school with lots of pt workers you have to try to make the timetable work.

elisamun · 14/04/2024 07:56

How long have you taken for Mat Leave? I believe if it's more than 6 months, you have fewer rights, ie the school need to offer you work at the same level and pay grade but if for operational reasons it can't be the exact same job, then they're within their rights to offer an alternative.

Original poster
PartTimeTeacher · 14/04/2024 07:57

@90yomakeuproom, yes, pretty much. They said as my request (just a breezy message to head saying could we meet to discuss possibly dropping days my days upon my return from leave) was written and the head responsed formally, we need to appeal the decision.

Honestly, I'm not sure this is the case but obviously they have a vast experience in dealing with these issues, and I don't, so don't want to be fighting union advice and school changes!

They're spreading my contracted hours over more days. It'll mean working an extra morning which doesn't suit my needs.

I have already sent the email to say I don't agree to changes (not so bluntly put) but didn't inform them of the union representation.

OP posts:
Morph22010 · 14/04/2024 07:58

themidimit · 14/04/2024 07:56

My understanding is that your pt contract will state the number of days you will work and not the actual days. Whenever I run a flexible working request meeting I make it clear that days could change. Each year I ask pt time teachers to specify which days they want for the next year but cannot guarantee that those days will be possible. We do our absolute best but there are compromises to make. In a large secondary school with lots of pt workers you have to try to make the timetable work.

They want it over more days though so for example the op was working 3 full days (can’t remember exactly) they want the same number of hours but just working mornings over 5 days

Original poster
PartTimeTeacher · 14/04/2024 07:59

@themidimit, I'm primary and do have contracted days set out. There's a flexibility clause in there which is what the school are replying on but, according to what I've read, it doesn't always mean the changes are lawful.

OP posts:
GladiatorsFan · 14/04/2024 07:59

Tricky one OP. Your HT will know childcare is a reason for keeping your hours condensed to as few days as possible and I can’t see them having finalised timetables yet (assuming you’re secondary), so they’d struggle to claim that’s the reason. I can see how you might feel that this is being used as an excuse to push you out (so many Heads dislike part time).

That said, I would probably still let your HT know that you’re seeking advice from your Union rep. You aren’t required to by any stretch of the imagination! But that way you’ve acted with grace regardless of their position - Governing Body involvement is uncomfortable for everyone.

Good luck - it’s a really rotten position to be in.

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