New "sickness managing policy" at work.........feels like the last straw! What are your views?

[needtobeanonymous]

Hello all

really need some calm sane opinions/advice on this issue as am too mad to think straight!

I work for a (v) large public body.....won't name it but am sure most people can hazard a guess.

Over the last few years we have seen out working conditions, pay etc eroded with much higher workload and constant 'negative' bulletins/e-mails etc etc. Morale is very low.

Then just after xmas, we got a new "sickness managing policy". Basically this wanted to make sure people were communicating about their sickness etc, fair enough.......

Now they have instigated 'interviews' for anyone that has had more than 3 episodes of sickness in the last six months. This is irrespective of the cause, whether you have a doctors certificate, whether you have had an op or have a serious illness like Cancer. The interview is held with you and two managers. They start off by saying they are 'assuming' the sickness is genuine but then go on to make statements like "are you aware of the impact YOUR sickness is having on your colleagues". "This organisation spent X million on sickness last year-we want to spend this on other things!!" The whole thrust of the interviews seems to be to harrass and intimidate you into agreeing to reduce your sickness, irrespective of the cause.

They are even interviewing people who have been involved in adverse/critical incidents and have been referred for PTS counselling by the organisation itself!! WTF!!!

Please don't get me wrong, I don't condone people having loads of sickies when they are well but sometimes people get ill!!

I am now say here dreading my interview as I have had three episodes of sickness,all with GP certs, all for totally genuine problems which meant I would not have been SAFE to do my job. Hopefully I will not have such a spate of bad luck again, but thats not the point.

I am fuming. Is this considered reasonable emloyer behaviour? Are they within their rights to act like this?

Sorry for rant

[llareggub]

Someone else has mentioned that the way in which the interviews are handled is very important. Where I work, the focus is less on the disciplinary aspect and more on supporting that person. To you use your example of a work related injury, the meeting would be more about talking through what happened to:

1. Make sure the person is fully recovered
   
2. That the things that led to the incident are identified and addressed to prevent it happening again
   
   Where someone has been off long term there may be a need to adjust the job for a period of time to help them return to work safely. We've often suggested that people return on reduced hours and build up to their usual contracted hours to facilitate a return to work.
   
   Where the sickness is related to work related stress, there is a legal requirement to undertake a stress risk assessment - so this is what happens at the meeting.
   
   As you can see, this isn't about slapping someone around the head with the sickness policy.

[NorthernLurker]

Exactly llareggub (great name btw) - that's exactly the approach I take

[foxinsocks]

I'm a very lax employer, I'm always sending people home .

One of our GP friends was telling us how awful Tescos are - she is always getting their employees in begging for a sick note which they have to pay for if they haven't been off for a week and the amount they have to pay for it is not far off their daily wage.

I think it's ridiculous to insist on a note for every absence, I really do. Clogs up the surgeries too.

[CaptainCaveman]

ah NL, hello!

[llareggub]

It shouldn't be HR doing the "interview" either. That's the manager's job. I agree that the manager and HR person are not medically qualified. We act on advice from Occupational Health professsionals. So we might know that someone has a bad back for example. The OH person might advise using a different chair. IME there is no judgement made.

But I can see that you are clearly on your own high horse!

[llareggub]

Thanks Northernlurker. It is a nightmare to spell though...

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

It's all very common practice I have to say. It is annoying for the genuine folk, but, working in the type of work I do, where I hear that people are off sick at least one day a week with either (and in no particular order) a) thrush b)period pains c)cystitis d)stress over their mums newly revealed pg e) flu (yes - just one day and usually a saturday) f) dizzy spells g)headache h)vomiting & diarrhoea.

I mean honestly, do you really think that their colleagues should have to cover for them 48 days a year (not including annual leave)? Of course not. But, they really do ruin it for the rest of us.

[CaptainCaveman]

be careful on that high horse - if you slip off you may need some time off work.....[tongue in cheek emoticon]. Have you risk assessed the horse, and possible dismount procedures?

[CaptainCaveman]

Not aimed at you VVVQV!!

[needtobeanonymous]

I hear what you are saying (two posts above) but they really aren't trying to 'support' people. And the work related injuries have already been dealt with fully, its just that the 'sickness' absence' is flagging these people up as needing interviews wherupon you are faced with these proforma questions/statements like "we would like to spend this money on other things."

Today there have been three people, all graet and commited workers doing bloody stressful and unappealing jobs, to be frank, walking out of the managers office either shaking in anger or in tears.

Maybe its time I looked for a new job!

[bozza]

We have return to work interviews after any period of sicknees but TBH with my particular line management they are just a formality. Although it is hard to say because I have a pretty good record (luck, I realise) these days - only 1 day off sick since my daughter was born in 2004. I am not sure how they would operate with people who are more regularly/persistently sick.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

Those excuses were all for the same person, btw.

[NorthernLurker]

{Hijack alert} Hi CC - subjects of common interest eh? Meant to say on t'other thread I was v relieved you viewed the a/l and m/l return to work for 3 months question in the same way as me - I'd started to get really paranoid Don't know what poor ss's lot are playing at!
{Hijack over - my apologies}

[marina]

Your Absence Management Policy sounds very like ours llareggub. I have used it to obtain flexi-time for a colleague grappling with chronic illness, for example

[OrmIrian]

It sounds like a problem with your managers ntba, rather than the system per se

[llareggub]

Sounds like the problem is with the person carrying out the interview rather than the whole idea of managing sickness absence.

If you feel that strongly I would suggest you discuss with your union, as they will have an interest in your views and will be able to lobby on your behalf.

[hunkermunker]

I've been off sick with period pain in the past.

But then, I've had three surgeries for period-related problems, and labour was a doddle compared to them, so that's fair enough, I think.

Can you give the skiving employee a mooncup with her next payslip, VVV? Will help her, I bet

[NorthernLurker]

OrmIrian - you have just posted exactly what I was going to type!

ROFL at thought of being off sick with Thrush (am assuming no immune system suppressing conditions alongside it - that's Not Funny)

[CaptainCaveman]

and with all those symptoms, maybe a pg test??

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

CC

The thing is, nba, sickness costs businesses across the UK millions of pounds each year. Not all companies can claim back the SSP they are required to pay. With some professional organisations, the cost of providing cover often runs to using agency staff, which is extortionate. Other professional organisations are so specialised, and dont have the capacity to employ agency staff on an ad-hoc basis or otherwise. It means calling someone in on their days off, and when they've worked 5 12-16 hour shifts in a row - possibly at night, well that really does suck.

If you have been genuinely sick, and have the relevant doctors notes to support it, and to support your return, you really should treat it as a formality, because that's what it is.

[hunkermunker]

I went in on New Year's Day with a sinus infection so bad I couldn't move my head or open my eyes properly because you cannot phone in sick on NYD, can you?!

Manager told me not to come in for the rest of the week because I looked so wretched.

[needtobeanonymous]

Oh well....
maybe if they make the place totally unpleasant to work for we will all resign and that will save them millions in salaries.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

Hunker, I doubt she'd have used it.

She has 'left' now. But it would drive them mad. We'd joke about it tbh. The excuses for coming in very late, or missing just the one day were utterly ridiculous. It was clear that she was just a teenager out on the lash every night. No bills to pay so no worries.

I've been off with period pains too. Also, once, when having to go home because I was in tears with a migraine that had just not been stifled by Migraleve, I was ushered into a side office by my supervisor and her superior, and told to "go to the doctors, you can get pills for migraines these days that fix it".

[NorthernLurker]

ntba - if your manager is crap that's one issue - but this policy really is designed to help you and your colleagues. For a start - if colleagues have less time off sick then that reduces stress on us!

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

sorry ntba, I dont mean to sound uncaring, but, I work very much on the other side of things, and, part of what we do sees lots of companies going under, or struggling. I also very often hear from small business that they really can't cope with sickness levels, maternity pay etc because they have to cover it off their own back as such. They dont get 100% support from the government. And the HMRC will always go after the small fish first. It sucks for everyone.