Medicine as a mature student, is 45 too old?

[Sirranon]

I'm 45. Been a sahm for 8 years amd was a Registered Childminder before that. Before that I had a short period of career drifting after a failed doctorate. I do have a good degree in a life science subject.

For many, many years, I've wanted to be a doctor. I almost took that path as a student, then decided on a science degree and an academic career instead. That didn't work out, and life took different turns, but I never lost a wistful yearning for medicine, even though I thought that ship had long sailed.

Now my husband is encouraging me to apply as a mature student. I didn't even think this was a thing - I'd assumed medical schools were looking for twentysomethings and tried to put it out of my mind.

I think I could handle the training and that I could do, and love, the job. Where I'm struggling is imagining medical schools would look twice at a 45 year old sahm. Is this an utterly unrealistic idea? If there's a slim chance I'll be taking it like a shot.

[Nocares]

What is it exactly about being a doctor you are interested in OP?

Is it about patient care? Nursing?

Is it about the scientific element? Pharmacist?

Working in life and death/crisis.. paramedic?

Be honest with yourself, is it about saying "I'm a doctor" and the percieved status? Not saying its a bad thing if it is, just that the novelty of that would soon wear off when reality sets in and your half way through a 60 hour week of nights! Yet you've moved your entire family half way across the country and are in masses of debt!

[Siw2020]

Also in agreement with the other Drs upthread I'm afraid.

Being a junior dr in current times is pretty gruelling and I would have been about 25 years younger than you when I started training.
There are several challenges:

1. Getting into medical school - many kids straight out of a-levels with all As and lots of extracurriculars don't get in. (You'd need more than just academics to offer - voluntary work, extracurriculars etc are the norm)
   
2. Medical school. It is a long, hard slog. It was hard enough in my 20s seeing others graduate and earn significantly more while I was still training. The tuition fees etc do rack up for a 5/6year degree. You don't earn very much for a good while so the debt is always there, looming.
   
3. Foundation training. Much more physically demanding and a different type of stress compared to medical student days. Main stress as a student is worrying about passing the constant exams. Foundation years are long and hard hours around the clock, changing jobs every 4 months and on calls can be tough, mentally and physically. Even more so if you're commuting or in an area with little support. There's little social life but the camaraderie got me through, I would think its harder as a 50 something year old to connect/have much in common with the youngsters.
   
4. Speciality training. Postgrad exams are even harder and have to pay out of pocket. I think for most are around 1 in 3 doctors pass any given sitting. The debts can build up, work-life balance can suffer.
   What gets me through is knowing this isn't permanent.
   I also dont have kids (yet) and have no idea how I will cope if and when I do have children alongside postgrad exams and training. The responsibilities also rack up quite quickly. Every stage has its own challenges and you need to be quite resilient to get through.
   
   I don't mean to sound negative but this is the reality of working as a dr in the NHS. While I do enjoy my job, in all honesty I'm not sure if I'd choose it again if I was to do life over. Yet, I also don't know what else I would do and this very much feels like an identity. I suppose as with anything, you need to weigh up the pros and cons.
   
   All the best whatever you decide!
   (P.s @WannaCapybara - radiology is a speciality within medicine. 5 or 6 year medical degree, 2 years of foundation then 5 years of radiology training. Unless of course you meant radiography, in which case I believe it is 3 years)

[doctorhamster]

You'd be working as a junior doctor in your 50s? I don't think that's realistic op, sorry.

[MeadowHay]

Not RTFT but my parent started a GEM course at 40. Also an academic beforehand but without the career break that you've had. Other parent already did most the childcare and had to continue to do this. Graduated with commendation. Did first year of F1 and then left to work in pharma, instantly earning vastly more. Still works in pharma now mid-50s. They did find it very difficult at various points on placements, had a lot of clinicians be very rude/discriminatory to them based off age or alternatively treating them like a teenager which parent found very difficult to deal with at that stage in their life. Also this was pre-GAMSAT and they're open about the fact that there is no way they'd have aced that if it had been a requirement. My DH applied for GEM a few yrs ago and only got one interview and was rejected despite a pretty good GAMSAT score. He was very limited as to where he could even apply due to poor A-Levels despite a 2:1 degree. He is now a Physician Associate. There were a few people on his course around your age although I'm sad to say they seem to have particularly struggled to find employment for awhile after graduation which I can only assume is age discrimination.

[Hairyfairy01]

Why a doctor OP? What appeals to you about it? Have you considered other roles? Obviously these roles will depend upon where your interest lay. Sorry but I also think you have left it too late to be a doctor, but not too late for other jobs in healthcare.

[adailymale34]

I have more than one friend who has left medicine as a career because they just can't make it work with children - it is of course possible but it requires a sacrifice and they weren't willing to do that to their families. Same in lots of careers - but if you do pursue it make sure you do your research about how you will balance it with family life.

[Doomsdayiscoming]

It’s more about the cost of training you versus the return you’d give back, IMO.

[caoraich]

My partner and I are doctors. He is an extremely fit 39 year old but is enormously struggling with still having to do frequent night shifts for his chosen specialty. He came in as a graduate starting uni at 25. Unless you chose one of the very few specialties where you go to non residential on call from CT1 (I do this now - it's no picnic either) then you'd be looking at frequent nights and weekend working from age 50-52 . Nurses often do this but with more stable patterns. A lot of the issue for junior doctors is frequent job and pattern changes so you don't get into a routine. You also end up staying many hours late in some jobs. A typical night shift is 8pm-830am but you'd usually stay for a post-take ward round which ends when it ends, not necessarily when your shift ends. My partner usually gets home at midday after a night shift.

I did once work with a 50 year old FY1. He really struggled and left 6 months in.

If you graduate at 50, you're looking at a minimum of 5 years to become a GP, 7 to become a radiologist and 10 if you want to become a surgeon or a paediatrician. Many doctors choose to retire before 65 - I know at 34 now I have no intention of working as a consultant past 60 because it's just too draining.

I'm usually really enthusiastic about people from wider backgrounds joining medicine as god knows it needs more variety but I'm really sorry I think at 45 this isn't a realistic option. If you fancy just doing the course for education's sake and not actually practicing then that of course is a different thing - it is a great course in itself!

[Sirranon]

Thanks for all your replies.

Soul searching about why being a doctor appeals is something I clearly need to do. I've looked up physician associate, and actually that looks great and covers most of what appeals. They do diagnosis, which is really one of the main attractions to me. I'm also attracted to giving people science based health advice to improve their lives - perhaps I should also consider dietician. I'm a team player and would be more than happy to work in a team under a doctor.

It seems like if I tried to become a GP, I'd be potentially gaining greater status and earning power after a decade, but at great cost to get there. I'm rightly or wrongly the type of person who if I'm told something is hard will tend to say 'hold my beer', but there's obviously my family to consider. My children are 13, 7 and 3.

I'm not sure I've understood what the foundation years involve. Would I be expected to change what hospital I was working at every few months as a junior doctor and have to move? Obviously that kind of disruption to schools is not on. Or is it usually a change of jobs within the same hospital?

[Nocares]

You change hospitals OP, so you could do 6 months at say Cardiff University then the only other hospital option you have is manchester for your next placement etc. But they may take your family into consideration and place you at Bristol. Which is still not realistic with a family and you'd probably have to live there during your back to back 12 hour night shifts and drive back for your day off (not always together).

Its not impossible and no one is saying you can't but do you WANT to be leaving your family often for several years. For what? Unless you pass every single exam first time you'll be missing out on your children's entire childhood for the sake of a few years in practice. Doesn't make sense.

Just weigh it all up and be very realistic with yourself and your husband.

[caoraich]

"I'm not sure I've understood what the foundation years involve. Would I be expected to change what hospital I was working at every few months as a junior doctor and have to move? Obviously that kind of disruption to schools is not on. Or is it usually a change of jobs within the same hospital?"

So the whole UK is split up into "deaneries" which are broad working areas. Some are small and some are large and commutability varies. It's worth having a Google for the areas you see yourself living in.

FY is 6x 4 month posts broadly covering medicine and surgery and with additional jobs like ED or psychiatry depending on the programme you get.

I did FY in the west of Scotland. This meant 2 placements in one hospital in Glasgow then a third placement in a hospital on the other side of the city. Then moving to Lochgilphead for 4 months then to Oban for my final 2 4 month placements.

Your programme is based on your ranking at the time of application though I think they do make concessions for families.

For higher training including GP the same deaneries apply

[adailymale34]

They do not make any concessions for families in foundation years. You go where you go. It's very inflexible and not family friendly.

[adailymale34]

I think as a whole we are coming across negative - sorry. It's a great job and it's worthwhile, but if I had the chance again I'd want to go into it with my eyes open about what being a doctor means in terms of compromising the rest of your life. I definitely wouldn't have done it with young children. I didn't see my husband for years, the marriage only just survived, I wouldn't want to do that to my relationship with my kids

[Rainallnight]

I’m the same age as you, OP, and I’ve considered this too. It’s really the junior doctor stuff that puts me off. I just can’t imagine myself doing that slog into my fifties.

I’ve come across physicians associates and I’d love to know more about it.

[PermanentTemporary]

I think dietetics is a really good call and you should look into it more seriously. My dietetic colleagues are brilliant people and have lots of patient contact.

[Hairyfairy01]

Have you considered physiotherapy, speech and language, radiology, podiatry, Occupational Therapy, nursing, health visitor and yes dieticians?

[catlovingdoctor]

Would you consider dentistry? It's still very stressful and demanding in it's own way but at least you can work straight away once you qualify. It's much more family-friendly with better work/life balance and the option to work part time. The money in the initial stages is better than medicine too; dentists tend to hit the £50-60k mark within a couple of years whereas doctors spend years on £30-40k, whilst having to do nights and weekends. It might suit your stage of life better than medicine.

[happylittlevegemites]

I’m a podiatrist, and diagnosing problems is what makes me tick. I’m even looking at doing post graduate study for diagnostic ultrasound. I think that if it’s problem solving and diagnosing that floats your boat, a lot of allies health care fields would suit you.

cop.org.uk/become-a-podiatrist/resources

[NewtoHolland]

I think unless you have really amazing flexible childcare and are prepared to be moving or having long commutes a lot it's just not realistic. It really is a training which is pretty life consuming (my sister is a GP, and I worked in the NHS for 11 years) so have reasonable experience.
Drs shift patterns in training years are very unforgiving. It isn't a 3/4 day week with consistent 12hr shifts like within other shift careers. You can do nights, a rest day then straight into 5 days office hours then on the weekend long days...it shouldn't be like that but the reality is, and on top you'll be being asked for swaps or extras.
I think at your stage with children of volunteer in hospital and at a GP surgery to gets real feel of the reality of the work and what roles might appeal to you. Then you'll really know what feels right to you and would work for your family.

[Babdoc]

I only had two colleagues in 36 years who successfully did what you are proposing, OP.
Both were male. One already had a science degree and was working in medical education before retraining as a doctor. The patients regularly mistook him for a consultant when he was a newly qualified doctor, as he was grey haired and balding!
The other was (believe it or not) the principal cellist with a famous London orchestra, who had always wanted to study medicine, and got a mature student entry, eventually specialising in psychiatry.
Both had wives who were already doctors, so knew what they were letting themselves in for.
So it is possible, but it is absolutely gruelling, and very incompatible with family life.
I would only contemplate it if you are utterly dedicated, motivated, in excellent health, and can cope with the massive student debt, awful hours, years of study and disruption of your life.

[helpmum2003]

OP please don't contemplate it with children of those ages. For your sake and theirs.

This is one of many potential links which demonstrates the reality of life as a junior doctor
www.rcplondon.ac.uk/guidelines-policy/being-junior-doctor

[Tagsisbk]

Medical school is 5-6 years and gruelling. Followed by FY1 and FY2 year which involve long hours and doing a lot of work, a lot of which seems really laborious.

I’m a nurse in icu and we all feel very sorry for the junior doctors who seem to be always there, have exams to study for and a lot of work to do. These drs struggle in their 20s and 30s, many without children.

I’d second the physician associate degree mainly because it’s 2 years and incorporates many roles of the doctor and is also fairly well established in GP.

There are plenty of AHP jobs as well as nursing and midwifery which are 3-4 years then straight in. However, as a nurse I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone who doesn’t actually want to do it, and imagine this is the same for all other AHPs.

That isn’t to say it isn’t doable and (although different) I’ve worked with many fantastic nurses who qualified in their 40s and 50s

[Tagsisbk]

Also for working in a team under a doctor - dieticians, AHPs, nurses and midwives do not work in a team under a doctor, they work alongside doctors. Nurses are managed by nurses, AHPs by AHPs etc.

[WannaCapybara]

Oh yes that's what I meant @Siw2020 thank you

[AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii]

What about getting a Healthcare assistant role and the applying for nursing or other healthcare related degree through the open uni? That’s what I’m doing, I work part time as a healthcare assistant, do the theory modules in my own time and then go on placement blocks but still doing my part time hours so it fits around the children whilst still getting my normal wages.