Medicine as a mature student, is 45 too old?

[Sirranon]

I'm 45. Been a sahm for 8 years amd was a Registered Childminder before that. Before that I had a short period of career drifting after a failed doctorate. I do have a good degree in a life science subject.

For many, many years, I've wanted to be a doctor. I almost took that path as a student, then decided on a science degree and an academic career instead. That didn't work out, and life took different turns, but I never lost a wistful yearning for medicine, even though I thought that ship had long sailed.

Now my husband is encouraging me to apply as a mature student. I didn't even think this was a thing - I'd assumed medical schools were looking for twentysomethings and tried to put it out of my mind.

I think I could handle the training and that I could do, and love, the job. Where I'm struggling is imagining medical schools would look twice at a 45 year old sahm. Is this an utterly unrealistic idea? If there's a slim chance I'll be taking it like a shot.

[MindBodyChocolate]

If you look on nhs website there’s lots of other healthcare options - radiologist, podiatrist, etc. maybe something like this would be more accessible for you?

[forinborin]

Whoa sorry did not notice zombie thread. Apologies!

[forinborin]

My ex is doing exactly that, a GEM medical degree later in life (older than you, OP). He says all his year intake is somewhere between 40 and 50, I think oldest students are 60-something.
He manages to be every second Sunday dad so far (I mean, day visit only, no overnights). And I understand the funding/ grants are also reasonably generous now. So with supportive family it is not completely impossible, OP. You only live once.

[PermanentTemporary]

Do try to shadow a hospital dietitian if you can - fascinating job and v technical. Shadowing is tricky right now but even the chance just to talk to one might be interesting. BDA website is good I believe.

[Peopletry]

Just to say what an interesting thread. This is the kind of dream I occasionally harbour and the detailed answers from people in the know have been very useful!
OP dietician does sound interesting and potentially lucrative currently with so many people interested in healthy eating.

[RedcurrantPuff]

I’m not a doctor but I would imagine it would be completely knackering.

[Viviennemary]

I'd say far too old. Early to mid thirties is quite late enough. Its very very hard work I believe. I agree with those saying totally unrealistic at 45.

[Sirranon]

It sounds like the junior doctor stage would make it impossible, even in the event I was accepted for training. I'm not really up at my stage of life for having little say in where I'm having to work and commute to. It sounds potentially ruinous for my marriage and family life tbh. Speaking to DH i don't think either of us had really known what is asked of junior doctors.

It sounds like I need to firmly put my regrets to bed and chin up and persue something else. There's some great suggestions here, and some things I'd not thought of. Dietetics is especially appealing, I have a lifelong interest in the science of healthy eating!

Becoming a HCA first is a great idea and I'll also look into that. 👍

[DishedUp]

I'm doing medicine as a second degree (dentistry is my first) honestly I'm late 20s and I'm really not looking forward to my junior doctor years

Really long shifts - I currently do weekend and night shifts but not as bad as junior doctor. Theres so much uncertainty, you could end up anywhere in the country. Its difficult with partners because I can't expect them to uproot their job for me, difficult with houses. Do we buy because I might not get a placement in this region? Right now I feel almost too old and I'm in my 20s, its just difficult to get on with your life and your very much expected to completely centre your job and devote your life to it. Which is more and more difficult the older you get. When your 23 its easy to make training your everything, but not if you've got a partner and DC.

I think 45 is too old. Id think about why you really want to become a dr, what type of dr? Are we thinking GP? Because its not just medical school, you've got your F1 F2 years, then further training its a long slog to get there and then its a long slog of a job.

[Canitbemagic]

Being brutally honest here - you are unlikely in the first instance to find a medical school to accept you. My cousin had a first class degree in biomedical science and after a few years of a phd (which he didn’t complete the then work) decided he wanted to be a doctor. He applied for medical schools for 5 years and got nowhere and he was 32-37 and then gave up.

At 47 - by the time you get into medical school and finish you degree - you are looking at 53 at the earliest and then finding a placement to train as a GP which is another 2-4 years you will be nearly 60. So I don’t think so. Saying you will make a great doctor etc or even the personality won’t help with the cut and dried reality. Taken on a full trained medic as a Salaried GP in a practice - aged 30 is viable but not at 60. Most GP I know start off as a salaried GP which is hard and long hours and then become a partner and then cut back a bit. My friend is a Gp and does 8 sessions (2 full days and 3 half days) paperwork on top of this into evening - she does take home a good salary but at 40 she can commit to this even with young children - and has the energy.

Could you ask your local GP surgery if they would consider work experience or mentoring.

[NommyChompers]

After a few years I went running back to dentistry (not an alternative to medicine btw - and even harder to get into - never understand why it is suggested as an alternative) as MUCH more family friendly and OH is still a junior doctor so one of us needed to work normal hours so we could start a family.

[NommyChompers]

Not to be a downer but junior doctor shifts (speaking from experience) aren’t like other shifts. Quite normal to not get a single break - it’s 25000 steps and scoffing a sarnie In a lift and messaging hand overs on the loo. I barely coped at 25 tbh. Obviously depends on department and my partner did some less gruelling 9-5 psych placements but they CAN be incredibly physically demanding. And often in the NHS there isn’t even a chair to sit on and you work standing hunched over old laptops.

Maybe PA or some nursing roles you would have more control over the type of work you were doing earlier.

[AnnaMagnani]

When you say 'Do diagnosis' I think you need to really explore what that means in reality.

I found the later stages of medical school and then the junior doctor years a journey of disappointment as you adjust to what reality of actually being a doctor is, compared to what you might have imagined it was.

There were no lectures for example on how long I would spend filling out forms, hanging on the phone, wheedling for people to do tests for me, rewriting charts and so on. This is often a much bigger part of your day than diagnosis.

Also no-one mentioned that exams wouldn't be over for years after qualification. Bastards.

Physician associates or one of the many AHP roles. Healthcare is a team game.

[MissLucyEyelesbarrow]

@twig1234

If you like the idea of diagnosing etc then the associate role is fine but at present no option to prescribe, this may change. Nurse route to ANP would be another option. You can specialise in minor illness/injury and complete prescribing masters. You need to have Advanced diagnostics master module too. Minor illness believe me is not always minor and you will deal with a wide range of presentations. Good luck in what route you take

Now that physicians associates can be part of the RCP, I think they're virtually guaranteed to get prescribing rights (subject to doing prescriber training, obviously). So the OP would be able to prescribe by the time she had trained.

I agree with everyone recommending work as an HCA, OP. I did this before and during med school, and it was invaluable in learning about patient care and how healthcare works.

[twig1234]

If you like the idea of diagnosing etc then the associate role is fine but at present no option to prescribe, this may change. Nurse route to ANP would be another option. You can specialise in minor illness/injury and complete prescribing masters. You need to have Advanced diagnostics master module too. Minor illness believe me is not always minor and you will deal with a wide range of presentations. Good luck in what route you take

[TicTac80]

I agree with all the above (based on what I've seen with my mates who are doctors). Med school was something I considered at 29, and got accepted into (for the accelerated course)....but I changed tact and went for nursing on the basis that I was a single parent, and my then 3yr old would be starting school within 2yrs. The studying wasn't the issue: the moving around would have been. If it had been guaranteed that I could have completed ALL my rotations for foundation and core training etc within a small radius of location, then yes I would have done it. The only way I would consider going into medicine now (at 40) would be:

1. if I won a huge amount on the lottery.
   
2. if I could conjure up a live in nanny, cleaner and chef to run my house/look after my kids.
   
3. if I could guarantee that my rotations would be within a 30-50miles radius (so that I could drive home and not live away from my kids).
   

My friend (who I mentioned earlier): her children were mid teens. Her husband stepped up to looking after the family/running the household to enable her to complete her training, and she lived away from the family home (rather than the family being moved). If you can have a guaranteed set up like that, then go for it.

Another friend did a biomedical sciences degree, then went straight into med school in her early 20's. She had a baby mid way through (and her ex left her). She was lucky that her parents could step in and help. But I remember when she was an F1/F2/SHO etc scrambling for childcare when her arranged childcare had fallen through. She couldn't just not show up to work. I remember once she was due to come onto nights, and her ex didn't show up to look after their little boy (who also had quite complex SEN). I was due to finish my shift at 8pm and so told her to bring him in, and we'd swap over looking after her son. She still got a rollocking for being late, and was threatened with being reported for it!! It's definitely not a family-friendly job. She was going to go for GP training but had to delay it whilst getting firm and water-tight childcare in place.

As a nurse, I did shifts....but when I split with ex, I was able to negotiate working full time hours around my DD's wraparound care hours (this is very rare on a busy and acute ward). Luckily I've worked at the same Trust for over 20yrs (either part time during studies or full time), and many of the staff have known me since I was a teen (and know that in the past, I would work any shift patten). My Matron (we've been friends/colleagues since 1998!) knows that once my children are older, I will go back to working shifts full time. But it's rare for that sort of thing to happen in a ward based setting, and I'm very very lucky.

If you've never worked in healthcare, I would also recommend looking at starting as an HCA (22/23yrs ago, as a 1st yr undergrad, I worked part time as a domestic, an HCA and in the labs to get an idea of how things were!). It is the best way to have a really good look into how a ward works, and whether healthcare is something you'd really want to get into. I have a guy on my ward who is doing exactly that - he was thinking of med school but is gaining experience on the wards to see if it's really the direction he wants to go in. The MDT on my ward is happy to explain their roles and show people what they do. And we all love teaching (and recruiting new people!!).

Other things you could look into?
-Biomedical Sciences (you learn a lot of very similar stuff to what is covered in Med School, but work in the labs). I did this and then retrained as I wanted more patient contact.
-Nursing: you train and then could work in wards, ITU, GP surgeries, in the community, nursing homes, theatres, endoscopy, clinics, become a specialist nurse etc. You can work your way up to a Nurse Practitioner role or work your way up through management.
-Physio: again, you could work the ward (resp, orth, paeds, neuro etc), clinics, in the community etc
-Occupational therapy: ditto
-Speech and Language therapy
-Radiographer, sonographer etc.

There are so many different roles that work together to look after a patient. We all depend on each other and work with each other. :D Have a nosey and see what's there :D

Feel free to PM me if you want x

[CherryRoulade]

I think it’s not likely to be possible with three young children.
My daughter is one of the youngest GPs in the country with no other commitments apart from the dog. She’s exhausted most of the time and is in a practice that opted for lower caseloads.

She hasn’t seen daylight in a good few weeks. She leaves home at 6:45 every day and gets back around 7:30pm. She rarely has a break.
She’s done 9 years training thus far and is about to start a Masters.
She chose the geographical region (deanery) to do foundation programme in, but had no choice of town and her boyfriend didn’t get same town. Some don’t get the deanery they want because of ranking. Some hope for London and get Margate. Half of her GP training was hospital based with night shifts, weekends and Christmas on the rota.

Same for GP training where she was offered a place in Wessex - she could be placed anywhere from Winchester, Portsmouth, Southampton and down to Bournemouth or Dorchester. Hard if your family are at a point where you can’t move them around.

Maybe start with some work experience (essential usually), try a UKCAT to see if you reach scores required and do something to demonstrate recent study. Then think if it’s realistic. I guess the main question is that if you’ve wanted it for so long, why haven’t you done it before? That doesn’t reek of determination, particularly when coupled with an uninspiring work history.

[Butterfly44]

"I'm not sure I've understood what the foundation years involve. Would I be expected to change what hospital I was working at every few months as a junior doctor and have to move? Obviously that kind of disruption to schools is not on. Or is it usually a change of jobs within the same hospital?"

For the placements moving around the country every 6 months with young children isn't possible. The option would be having them stay where they are and you moving away and spending a whole lot less time with them. You won't be off for school holidays, will be busy weekends and you don't get much advance notice of your on call shifts so you can't plan ahead. It's not compatible unless you have full time childcare and are willing to miss out. Sorry OP - the demand, cost and stress of this route for very few years of GP work isn't something recommended; especially with children so young. They need their mum 💐

[MrsAvocet]

Alaska's suggestion that you get a healthcare assistant job is really good advice. It will give you better insight into a lot of roles within the NHS. I would think it would be highly desirable and possibly essential to have some kind of health related experience to support your application for any of the courses mentioned earlier, not just medicine. If you can't find a paid job I would look into some kind of volunteering within health and social care. It will both help you decide what you really want to do, and give you a better chance of achieving it I would think.

[AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii]

What about getting a Healthcare assistant role and the applying for nursing or other healthcare related degree through the open uni? That’s what I’m doing, I work part time as a healthcare assistant, do the theory modules in my own time and then go on placement blocks but still doing my part time hours so it fits around the children whilst still getting my normal wages.

[WannaCapybara]

Oh yes that's what I meant @Siw2020 thank you

[Tagsisbk]

Also for working in a team under a doctor - dieticians, AHPs, nurses and midwives do not work in a team under a doctor, they work alongside doctors. Nurses are managed by nurses, AHPs by AHPs etc.

[Tagsisbk]

Medical school is 5-6 years and gruelling. Followed by FY1 and FY2 year which involve long hours and doing a lot of work, a lot of which seems really laborious.

I’m a nurse in icu and we all feel very sorry for the junior doctors who seem to be always there, have exams to study for and a lot of work to do. These drs struggle in their 20s and 30s, many without children.

I’d second the physician associate degree mainly because it’s 2 years and incorporates many roles of the doctor and is also fairly well established in GP.

There are plenty of AHP jobs as well as nursing and midwifery which are 3-4 years then straight in. However, as a nurse I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone who doesn’t actually want to do it, and imagine this is the same for all other AHPs.

That isn’t to say it isn’t doable and (although different) I’ve worked with many fantastic nurses who qualified in their 40s and 50s

[helpmum2003]

OP please don't contemplate it with children of those ages. For your sake and theirs.

This is one of many potential links which demonstrates the reality of life as a junior doctor
www.rcplondon.ac.uk/guidelines-policy/being-junior-doctor

[Babdoc]

I only had two colleagues in 36 years who successfully did what you are proposing, OP.
Both were male. One already had a science degree and was working in medical education before retraining as a doctor. The patients regularly mistook him for a consultant when he was a newly qualified doctor, as he was grey haired and balding!
The other was (believe it or not) the principal cellist with a famous London orchestra, who had always wanted to study medicine, and got a mature student entry, eventually specialising in psychiatry.
Both had wives who were already doctors, so knew what they were letting themselves in for.
So it is possible, but it is absolutely gruelling, and very incompatible with family life.
I would only contemplate it if you are utterly dedicated, motivated, in excellent health, and can cope with the massive student debt, awful hours, years of study and disruption of your life.