Sacked for GM

[BumpleLeeds]

I'm in a dilemma and just wanted some opinions, please...

My partner has been sacked for gross misconduct and I'm not sure how I should feel / what we should do. I don't want to talk to friends about this yet as I'm not sure how they will react, and I don't want this to impact on our children. Our parents do know the full situation and are being very supportive.

Without going into full details, I'm confident that the reason for his dismissal was a one-off mistake on his part - and his line manager has said that they think the HR department have been extremely hard on him. However, this situation has put our family in a dire situation. He's appealing his employer's decision, while at the same time actively looking for work. He's had one interview for a job so far, and explained what has happened during the interview (as it would have come out in a reference). He didn't hear anything back, even after approaching the company for feedback. I'm worried that this whole situation could mean he's unemployable. I'm working, but can't support our family on my own.

This is a mess, and I need to keep things together as he's very depressed that he's the cause of all this. Does anyone have any advice as to how he can approach looking for other work given the situation?

[NiceGerbil]

Tbh OP in all my years only worked with a couple of people sacked for gross misconduct.

And what they did was really serious.

Are you only getting his side of the story?

I'm sorry you're in this position but it's the nuclear option for employers and if they have an HR dept it's not a small employer.

Having said that some employers are horrible.

But if you're only getting his version tbh you don't maybe know the full story.

[Hollyhocksarenotmessy]

He needs to find out whether a reference will include details of why he left. I wouldn't be volunteering the info, unless specifically asked why he left his last role.

His line manager is passing the buck. Or your husband is fibbing a bit and the line manager didn't say that. HR do not make the decision to fire someone, unless they chair the disciplinary hearing, which would be very unusual. Could he be minimising things to you? Ultimately it makes no difference to his getting another job, but it's a Waste of time for you both to be fretting over what happened, if actually it was a reasonable action.

[OhIGetItNow]

I will also say, a lot of the employers I had interviews with did appreciate my honesty, some said that's one reason they offered me an interview.

[OhIGetItNow]

If/when asked for reason for leaving, could he just say wrongly dismissed for gross misconduct and then if they ask for further details explain in a cut down way?
This happened to me at the beginning of the year, at first I went in to great length as to what happened, but the more people I had to tell, the shorter the "story" got, I still stuck to the truth, but just kept to the brief facts. I have now got a job that I started a few weeks ago, I just told them that I was wrongly dismissed for gross misconduct that involved another now ex colleague and they didn't ask for further details, so I didn't tell them, they still don't know the details now.

Good luck op, I know how your DH must be feeling, it's horrendous having people think you are something you aren't 💐

[Lougle]

I'm sorry you're having to face such a stressful time. It will very much depend on what he did as to whether he can salvage his employability.

[Nohomemadecandles]

Has he asked his employer what his reference will say? Can he get a written reference from a line manager?
It WILL come out in the wash so I think hedging the right thing bring honest but if he can mitigate that with decent references then he might stand a chance.
Admitting he did something silly and that he's absolutely learnt from it. I have clients who would give him a shot if he was honest.
Is the Union prepared to back him?

[Smallgoon]

Gross misconduct is extremely serious, and as others have pointed out, it's difficult for employers to fire somebody on these grounds, without sufficient evidence. The reasons for why somebody would be fired for gross misconduct are also usually stipulated in the contract of employment/employee handbook, so this outcome shouldn't come as a surprise, if somebody is guilty of GM - the whole "he made a mistake" wouldn't really wash in this instance. If dh is guilty of doing something that constitutes GM, I'm not sure how others in this thread are stating he could request a settlement agreement!

However, if DH feels that the disciplinary process was unfair, of course he can lodge an appeal. My advice is that most employers would have referred to legal reps before firing somebody for gross misconduct to ensure they haven't left themselves open to challenge.

[MrDarcysMa]

If he's appealed then they might agree a neutral reference/ pay off, especially if the employers are found to have not followed proper procedure.
So no need to tell potential employers yet.

[JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn]

You're right, there isn't enough information provided to suggest a settlement agreement could be obtained. But as OP stated that union weren't convinced the treatment her DH received was fair, this could lead the way to a settlement agreement.

The best advice would be to get professional legal guidance and take it from there.

Many companies do have a templated response for references - again, you're right that more may be required for a higher level role. As OP has provided little information I took the 'lowest common denominator' route to offer reassurance. In hindsight whilst my intentions were good, the advice may not be appropriate.

OP I hope this gets sorted. If you DH has done something that justifies dismissal for GM it is going to be a difficult time. Let's hope it isn't as bad as it seems and that union can help smooth this out for an easier exit from the company.

[JudgeJudee]

@JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn

Definitely don't mention anything at interview. References never include anything except start and end dates.

Your DH needs to negotiate resignation and a settlement agreement, which includes a non-disclosure clause. Then he can interview without worrying.

I hope the union helps sort this out for him.

Do you think every company is issued one reference template? Of course references can include all types of information, depending on who is providing them.

Also, a settlement agreement? There’s nothing to go on here to suggest the OP’s boyfriend has been subject to anything but a fair and standard process. On what grounds do you think he’d have a claim for a settlement?

[HopeAndDriftWood]

References never include anything except start and end dates

Some don’t, but they can. And I’m not sure there’s any grounds to be asking for a settlement agreement yet - it seems OPs DH did the thing, and is only appealing that the punishment seems harsh. There’s no incentive for the employer to agree to non-disclosure or a plain reference, unless they’ve not followed procedure.

Although it probably would have been worth seeing what did come back on a reference. Anything said has to be true (but it’s a common misconception that it has to be good), and there’s a chance they will just opt for his dates of employment and role. But there’s also a chance that the new employer will push for more than that; and most of the standard “reference” forms these days seem to include questions on disciplinary proceedings. The employer can refuse to answer; but that sort of sends a message by itself...

Is he in a field where he could pick up some temp work for a while, and a newer reference?

[custardbear]

Personally I'd temp for a while, get reference from latest job then ie the temp job

As foe sorting the issue, do what others have said above, see if unions can support with reference negotiations - sorry this is happening to you

[JudgeJudee]

his line manager has said that they think the HR department have been extremely hard on him

I’ve been involved in hundreds of disciplinaries and investigations over the years (as company HR, as an independent consultant, and as a court adjudicator) and can tell you that 9 times out of 10, line manager trot out that line because it’s easier to pass the buck than to have a difficult conversation.

Same with things like bonuses- “if it was up to me you’d have had way more but HR/Senior Management have my hands tied”.

If it’s a reputable company and he’s been sacked for gross misconduct, and given fair process, chances are his line manager has been spoken to as part of the investigation process.

[lyinginthegutterstaringatstars]

It's hard to give an opinion as no idea what happened but is it possible he has downplayed his involvement? If he has been stealing , falsifying documents , using the premises for personal use etc that's quite serious .

[KihoBebiluPute]

For job hunting he should only be looking for jobs which will never give him the opportunity to do whatever it is he did. So yes he may never be trusted with finances again (for example) but if he retrains as a tree surgeon or plumber or lorry driver then he never needs to be trusted with finances.

No recruiter is ever going to choose someone experienced but untrustworthy over someone with less experience but no history of untrustworthy behaviour.

Getting a neutral reference negotiated will be great for getting a job but if he really is guilty of what he is accused of and gets a job where this information is relevant he could still lose his job again if the new employer finds out. So he needs to look for jobs where they won't care.

If he is not guilty then he needs to focus on clearing his name and can apply for jobs in the field he is experienced in armed with a narrative that supports his trustworthiness.

Confessing that this has happened yet still hoping to be selected as a new recruit in the same field of work is never going to succeed.

[ivfbeenbusy]

So what did he do?

Clearly If the companies he is interviewing for are going silent when they hear what he "did" then it must have been pretty serious and they also believe it was GM??

Are you sure he isn't downplaying/minimising what he did??

[Iwillneverbesatisfied]

OP I left with an exit package after years of discrimination and tribunal proceedings. I am telling prospective employers that I was made redundant due to Covid 19. No one questions that. Your DH could try that line? I did negotiate a neutral reference though, get his union to negotiate that for him.

[JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn]

Definitely don't mention anything at interview. References never include anything except start and end dates.

Your DH needs to negotiate resignation and a settlement agreement, which includes a non-disclosure clause. Then he can interview without worrying.

I hope the union helps sort this out for him.

[EBearhug]

There's a difference between lieing if they ask him a question about why he's leaving, and volunteering the information unasked. He shouldn't volunteer it if he isn't asked about it.

Good luck with the union, etc. Mine was brilliant when I had some HR issues, so I hope his is as good.

[BumpleLeeds]

@WhereverIGoddamnLike

Will the GM result in an criminal proceedings against him? Or are we just dealing with the issue if reference and explaining why he left the job etc?

No criminal proceedings. Just reference and explanation going forward.

[Dazedandconfused10]

We never mention a person's reason for leaving in a reference, job title and employment dates only - does he know they will?

[BumpleLeeds]

Thanks for the advice everyone. He has the backing of his union, who said they were shocked at the original decision. He's been telling agencies and potential employers because he'd read online that you have to be honest in case it comes out at reference stage. But I think he's not getting a fair chance - as soon as he mentions what's happened to possible employers, things go silent.

Perhaps trying to negotiate a neutral reference is the best way forward here.

[cherrypie790]

As a small business owner myself, it's quite hard to be able to dismiss someone for gross misconduct and you need to be on very solid ground to do so.

I'll be careful how I say this - if he genuinely thinks that he has been treated unfairly, then an employment solicitor is the best way forward - like a PP said, check your home insurance to see if you have cover.

I'm really sorry that you're in this situation.

[MegBusset]

Agree he absolutely should not be mentioning it to prospective employers. It is likely that he will be able to agree a neutral reference with the previous employer. Some organisations only give these as a matter of course (I have one former employer which will literally only give your start and end dates and job title as a reference, for anyone who leaves).

[WhereverIGoddamnLike]

Will the GM result in an criminal proceedings against him? Or are we just dealing with the issue if reference and explaining why he left the job etc?