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are my employers in the wrong??

101 replies

Weenie1 · 22/11/2013 21:29

Before i booked our family holiday in feb this yr i filled im my daughters holiday form and asked my employer if i also needed to fill a form in for holiday leave. was informed No i did not need to, to then in april of this yr be asked to fill one in after i had booked and paid for my holiday, request for leave was declined but i went on holiday anyway. IM now having to have a disciplinary hearing for unauthorised absense from work which is classed a misconduct. My question is this i am being punished for taking leave but other work collegues have taken time off also and are not going through the same process, and it states in all our work contracts we are not allowed to take holidays during school term time as we are dinner ladies, so why am i having a disciplnary hearing and no others?? can my employers do this?

OP posts:

Report

mariefab · 22/11/2013 23:27

Did your line manager arrange cover for your other colleagues whose holiday requests had been declined too?

Weenie1 · 22/11/2013 23:28

they got tougher with leave when they became tougher on the children taking holidays during term. so proper cracked down on everyone.

But as i have stated im the only one who has bn investigated and now having a dis.hearing for not being at school while others enjoyed their holidays during term..... my hols started during the summer hols and ended 9 days after school spet term started, so im at fault for that which i accept, i just Don't accept being treated this way while others have had nothing.

OP posts:

HappySunflower · 22/11/2013 23:29

Wen to asked about the leave in February, did you check out the specific dates?
Did your line manager clearly state that you could have those days off?

Weenie1 · 22/11/2013 23:30

yes cover was arranged for the others also but not for one as there where no relief dinner ladies to cover for her.

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Weenie1 · 22/11/2013 23:32

yes i checked dates but she (my line manager) was unsure when we came back to school in sept and was too busy to look it up so told me to just fill in my daughter holiday form and hand it in.

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Nerfmother · 22/11/2013 23:33

You asked in February to take time off in September. Did you a) ask if there was a request form and get told no there is no form or b) ask about the specific dates and get told yes you can go. The former doesn't imply permission the latter does.
I definitely think you should raise the being singled out issue IF you can prove that others took unauthorised absence and were not disciplined.
What happened after it was not okayed? Did you query it?

Weenie1 · 22/11/2013 23:41

i did A and then i asked for line manager to check term dates for me but they were too busy to check but was NOT told yes i could go..i was told to just fill in daughters holiday form. Daughters holiday was declined, but when i Rang school and spoke to them i was informed even tho it had been declined for my daughter to have holiday No fine was going to be imposed for my daughter as her attendace was 100% and it was a one off time.

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Weenie1 · 22/11/2013 23:43

sorry just re-read ur question nerfmother.... i asked for a form for myself and was told there was no form us dinner ladies to fill in for request of leave. They only fetched that form in back in april 2013..3 month after i asked.

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mariefab · 22/11/2013 23:44

At some point you must have informed your line manager that you were going to take the holiday even though it had been refused.
Otherwise she wouldn't have known that she needed to arrange cover.

Were you warned, at any time, that if you went ahead and took the holiday you may be disciplined?

Weenie1 · 22/11/2013 23:50

yes i informed my line manager as soon as i put in daughters hol form, i then told her again when i had to fill in the form they gave us all in april, and then she asked me for the dates i would not be in school for sept term so she could arrange cover.

i was told in june/july by my line manager that i would have to have a informal meeting with her when i got back to expalin where i had been and why i had not been at work from the 02/09/13 - 11/09/13.

had that meeting and after she said HR may wish to take it futher.

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Preciousbane · 22/11/2013 23:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mariefab · 22/11/2013 23:56

Have you worked there for 2 years or more?

Weenie1 · 22/11/2013 23:58

No i was not the first to take leave after the crack down...i was the last...the 1st co worker took hol time end of april, the others in may and june i took mine during the summer hols but it ran into the new schhol term, so i was the last one to take my holiday.

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Weenie1 · 23/11/2013 00:00

yes i have worked there for 3 1/2 years and this is the first time i have had time off for a holiday. My last holiday aboard was 10 yrs ago.

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mariefab · 23/11/2013 00:13

Has a date been set for the disciplinary hearing?
Have you been informed that you have the right to have a work colleague (or union rep.) accompany you at the hearing?

K8Middleton · 23/11/2013 00:14

You need to try to establish the following thing:

That the holiday was granted back in February. What happened? Did you have a conversation with your line manager and if so when, where and were there any witnesses?

That when you were asked to fill in a holiday form in April it was on the understanding that it was just a formality for your agreed holiday that was authorised in February.

That when your holiday was declined in April you spoke to your manager and clarified it was a mistake and that it had been prearranged. This I'm not sure you can do from what you have said. This may be your stumbling block.

That the holiday was authorised as evidenced by your line manager arranging cover. Do you have details of conversations? Rough dates and times, locations and witnesses?

That customer and practice in your workplace has been to allow term time holidays. You will need evidence of holidays being agreed during term time without any special circumstances but just how you all do it at work. Things like caring responsibilities, weddings, funerals and other exceptional reasons for leave will not count. You could also evidence the relief dinner lady arrangements possibly.

That it is an implied term of your contract that you may take term time holiday. This one only applies if you have taken holiday during term time before.

How did you request holiday before this happened? When the process changed did you sign anything to agree a new process or have any consultation?

To be honest if you have never taken term time holiday, all the other holiday granted was for exceptional reasons and you were never expressly told in February that your holiday was authorised and then told again back in April that your holiday was not authorised you have no case and should hold your hands up.

K8Middleton · 23/11/2013 00:16

x-posted. So no implied term for you if you've never taken holiday then before.

As this is extra holiday did you expect it to be paid or unpaid and did you discuss this with your line manager?

Weenie1 · 23/11/2013 00:20

date is set for 5th dec, and yes been advised that i can rep with me But im NOT in the union and no other co worker will come in with me.

my daughters holiday was declined in febuary, mine was not as i had no form to fill in at that time. One was given to all staff wanting time off in April of this yr and these Were ALL DECLINED. I do hold my hands up to taking time off when it was granted...My problem is out of 4 staff im the only one being disciplined for breech of contract and not the other 3. thats what i find unfair and wrong with all of this.

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HappySunflower · 23/11/2013 00:21

If you were never told that your could have the time off then yes, you are in breach of contract so disciplinary procedures can apply.
Could it also be the case that other people were told they could have their leave? You said earlier that a few of them were subject to an investigation?

Weenie1 · 23/11/2013 00:24

i knew i would be unpaid for this period, i lost my retainer pay ( for the 6 week holidays ) plus 9days of september term so in total i lost a month and halfs wage which i knew before hand. yes discussed it with kline manager who confirmed i would not be paid.

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K8Middleton · 23/11/2013 00:26

So you never had authorisation to take the leave at any point?

Do you know for certain that nobody else is subject to disciplinary proceedings? Often employers try to keep these things as private as possible for everyone's sake. Do you know for certain what their employment contracts are? If they have been there longer than you they might have different contractual terms or they could be newer but have different terms.

K8Middleton · 23/11/2013 00:27

Retainer pay? What sort of contract do you have?

This all sounds very odd.

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VerySmallSqueak · 23/11/2013 00:30

Retainer pay always used to be quite normal for canteen/school dinner staff - didn't know they still paid it though!

Weenie1 · 23/11/2013 00:31

Never said any of the other WERE under investigation, non of the others have bn investigated and have not been suspended like i have bn or are having to have a disciplnary hearing.

No we all got all our forms( which we were asked to fill in in april ) back at same time and we all discussed the outcome and all of them had been declined, and the reason given for the decline stated no holidays to be taken during school term time as as per our contracts. all our contracts are the same i have been informed so that we all work to the same terms and conditions.

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K8Middleton · 23/11/2013 00:34

A contract is not just what is written down. If you do something for longer enough it becomes contractual - an implied term. Contractual terms can also be verbal.

I am confused by the retainer pay. How does that work with holiday pay which is statutory? Rolled up holiday pay is illegal now.

Do you have a permanent, term time contract?

Did your manager at any point during the discussions about covering your holiday say that it was unauthorised and would be treated as unauthorised leave? Or did she just talk about getting cover?

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