What do you do when baby is sick and you have noone to help?

[BabyBrainMom]

My husband and I are working and had to take time off (2.5 days each) to care for our baby, as she had a cold and could not go to nusery. That happened two weeks after she started nursery and we are concerned as with this rate (and as we are told to expect more of this) we will have no holidays left.

What are our statutory rights as working parents when baby is ill. Find the work environment unsupportive :(

[SirChenjin]

Yes, if employers want to keep a good, reliable, skilled, knowledegable workforce that they've spent a lot of money to train then it makes sense for them to be more flexible/generous, doesn't it?

[78bunion]

There can be nonsense on both sides. SPB's suggestions are good. The law currently - no pay and you have time to sort out emergency care. If that costs you and the children's father quite a bit then tough sees to be the right sort of balance and then if employers want ot be more generous they can be.

[Wallison]

Mind you, I don't think that changing the law is the only answer - a proper unionised workforce is a lot less likely to be subject to nonsense such as this. Of course, unions are a dirty word these days.

[Wallison]

Maybe so, but it still happens and it is a very real problem for some employees. Saying that it's 'common sense' doesn't help a person much when they get to the end of their options and the only two paths available to them are either finding another job or going to a tribunal. There are some shitty shitty employers out there and if employees' rights were stronger they would be less likely to put pressure on their employees in this way.

[hermioneweasley]

I think current provisions are adequate. I know many people who would never be in work if they got unlimited paid dependents leave.

Sometimes it is very difficult, but employers can't be expected to sort employees lives for them.

I am astonished to hear about a tribunal decision where a woman was dismissed on her second day of dependants leave with no other attendance issues/warnings and it was found to be fair. Since I sit on employment tribunals I am quite anxious to get the case details on that.

[SirChenjin]

Humu - not all employers allow you to take A/L at short notice. Again, in the NHS, we are supposed to give 4 weeks notice! And if you've a ward full of patients, or clinics to staff, it's just not always possible to grant emergency a/l

[SirChenjin]

No, not a podiatrist!

[SirChenjin]

Which is why it's built into T&Cs - you have to have consistency for all groups of staff.

It really isn't as easy as just saying "find someone to look after your children at short notice" or "work from home" or "work flexibly", unfortunately. Thousands of good, loyal workers face enormous difficulties coping with sick children - some employers recognise this and allow a degree of flexibility, others don't, sadly.

[Humuhumunukunukuapuaa]

You just take annual leave don't you?

[SPBisResisting]

[SPBisResisting]

Surely the point is that we don't have to envisage every possible combinations of job requirements and scenarios. Employers and employees just have to act reasonably.
It works the other way too - in my job I can eaily work from home when I'd potentially be too ill to go in. Sometimes when I work around sick children it's because we have a deadline to meet - I'd happily take annual leave but overall it'd be better if I work below par a bit but still got the job doen.

[SPBisResisting]

Yes I realised after I posted that I was thinking of my desk job (also NHS, or was) but I work independently and am not required to actually see other people :)
If you're a podiatrist, that's probably not so easy

[SirChenjin]

Not the law, T&Cs.

I'm not sure they would go for flexi working - that would mean working from 6pm until 1.30am, which would then impact on the working time directive if you were back at your desk for 9am. You would also have to set out exactly what work you had that didn't require any communication or interaction with colleagues, given that you were working outwith your normal hours - I'm sure you can understand how difficult that would be in the NHS?

[SPBisResisting]

Is that the law? Or terms and conditions?
I take your point, but working flexibly doesn't necessarily just mean that. For example, it could mean evening work, with someone else caring for your child (who can't diuring the day because they work 9-5) - I assume that sort of thing would be allowed?

[SirChenjin]

SPB - not sure if you saw my earlier thread, but I work for the NHS in Scotland and we are not allowed to work from home if we are on carers leave (ie looking after a sick child). The rule is that if you have carers responsibilities then you are not able to work.

[SPBisResisting]

" if you are a lone parent without support it would then be highly unreasonable of the employer to refuse to grant further leave "

However if you are in a very senior role and have used emergency nannies in the past for your child and yor child has a 'normal' childhood illness, eg chickenpox, then your employer would think it reasonable that you'd try to engage their services.

Surely it's all just common sense?

[SPBisResisting]

they give an example of emergency leave to take your child to the docs. Are you not looking after him/her on that trip? Or do you refuse to strap them in and hold their hand while crossing the road to make the point :o

[SPBisResisting]

Why is this so difficult? If your child is ill you get a day or two (whatever is reasonable) to arrange for something to be put in place. I have a husband and family who live nearby. It would be reasonable for me to have plans in place for alternative care within a day or two. If I were a lone parent without support, it might be reasonable for me to take annual leave at short notice, or be allowed to work more flexibly (eg from home). Of course you can look after your child while you put these plans in place - that goes without saying and doesn't need spelling out! But there's no AUTOMATIC entitlement to time off beyond that immediate crisis point because of a sick child. I repeat, if you are a lone parent without support it would then be highly unreasonable of the employer to refuse to grant further leave (either annual or unpaid).

[78bunion]

Most organisations do not have special leave. The right to take emergency leave whilst you hire the emergency nanny etc at your own cost is unpaid leave.

[Unexpected]

Pavlov you are lucky, I think very few organisations have "special leave" options.

Theincidental, I think we would all be interested to hear the case or cases you are referring to, to back up your statements.

[PavlovtheCat]

don't most organisations have 'special leave' options? my employers offer 'special leave' to care for a sick child that cannot be cared for by anyone else (or other dependents, partner etc). For example, when my daughter had chicken pox and was quite poorly, I took 1 week off (earlier in the month, DS had it, DH took that week off). I got special leave allowance for that which was half paid leave and half either annual leave or unpaid leave, depending whether I had enough to cover.

I get that some employers might not pay for their part of the 'special leave' but, it was not emergency leave that meant I couldn't care for my child, but only to organise it, but actual leave allowing me to care for a sick dependent. I also had this a long time ago when DD was in hospital with croup, I was given 1 week special leave, 1 week annual leave.

I am extremely lucky that I have supportive employers, good annual leave to fall back on, and flexi working, so if necessary I can change my days/hours to work with DH and get things covered. but, if I don't there is special leave to fall back on (not generally used for a 'cold' or similar though).

[flowery]

I don't think anyone is saying that 78

[78bunion]

That was not what I thought. I thought you had time to arrange your alternative care - pay the nanny agency to send out an emergency person, not to stay home for 2 weeks minding the child.

Government web site seems to back me up:
"As an employee you’re allowed time off to deal with an emergency involving a dependant.

A dependant could be a spouse, partner, child, grandchild, parent, or someone who depends on you for care.

How much you get
You’re allowed a reasonable amount of time off to deal with the emergency, but there’s no set amount of time as it depends on the situation.

Example
If your child falls ill you could take time off to go to the doctor and make care arrangements. Your employer may then ask you to take annual leave or parental leave if you wanted to look after your child for longer."

Note the use of make care arrangements. I fyou do a google servie it will take you to sites like these which say they can arrange childcare on 20 minutes notice even so not much excuse for employee to take ages off at home or some of us have a back up already arranged or contract with an agency.
www.emergencychildcare.co.uk

[flowery]

"I don't know what more I can say to demonstrate that what I am saying is true."

You can give me the name of the case, from your research.