Does the careers service in the UK work?

[AnnMumsnet]

The National Careers Council are reporting to the Government on the current state of the careers service in the UK and they've asked for our help.

It's all very timely because it coincides with Mumsnet's Workfest, sponsored by Barclays on June 15th which is all about helping mums get back into work or start their own business (still a few places left if you're interested )

If you could take a couple of minutes to answer the following questions we'd be ever so grateful.

~ First off did you know there was a National Careers Service for young people adults and have you / your DC ever used it?

~ Are your children getting any careers advice in schools and if so what sort of age has that happened?

~ And what sort of career aspirations do you have for your children?

We'll let you know what the Gov say on June 5th.

Thanks
MNHQ

[bouncer1966]

I've just been reading Private Eye issue no 1449 who actually say on page 10 under HP Sauce columns that those who attend NCS are actually worse off than those who don't bother.
Not very good all around there, given the current dire jobs situation - gigeconomy, zero hour contracts, 800,000 neet etc.

I did attend something similar myself and the cv they did ensured that i actually got less interviews than the one i'd had done previously.

[childmaintenanceserviceinquiry]

my big issue this year was that mumsnet were posting incorrect information on their jobs board ie closing date and then blaming it on external third parties. Teflon, no ownership at all.

I am not sure that much "recruitment" advice or boards, especially that aimed at out of work individuals is that good. A lot of talk, and little action (but obviously with some very well paid individuals).

[jompyy]

The NAtional career service is complete and utter rubbish. Everytime ive had to see them it has been a complete waste of time. Ive been lied to, questioned about my intelligence, given jobs off INdeed.co.uk when told not to use indeed website.....it is a scam, a total waste of tax payers money. Just do it yourself. Do not give them any chance to help because they do not help.

[TheFarSide]

Olderkids qualified careers advisers are not so directive, and I'd be very surprised if one told your kids they "should do travel and tourism/be a gamekeeper". They have either been selective in what they reported back to you, or the person they saw wasn't a careers adviser.

A suggestion may have been made based on the conversation that took place. In exploring career options, it would be normal practice to ask a young person about their interests outside school, and if someone mentioned that they enjoyed travelling it's not unreasonable to ask if they have considered studying or working in travel and tourism.

The gamekeeper suggestion sounds like something thrown out by one of the computer career matching programs: these programs usually suggest a range of possible careers based on a students' answers to a range of questions. It's a real job and suits some people and as a careers adviser I wouldn't avoid mentioning it just because it's a small industry.

If I sound irritated, it's because I am saddened to see such sweeping judgments applied to careers advice. It is much needed and much appreciated by many young people, and in danger of disappearing without the support of the general public, including parents.

[Olderkidsaremine]

It sounds as though the career advice given out in schools is as useless as it was 6 - 8 years ago, middle child was told to do 'travel and tourism' as she liked holidaying abroad!! She got three A's at alevel and the youngest was told that as he liked shooting - was in the cadets - and didn't want to sit at a desk in an office then he should be a gamekeeper - yes a good choice because we, as a country, are always in need of more gamekeepers!!! Needless to say I told them both to ignore any other career advice they got unless they asked me about it first! One is now a teacher, the other is going to be on a graduate scheme in a major high street shop!

[TheFarSide]

I agree careersmum about the lack of connection between school and work. When I was at school in the 1970s, I distinctly remember thinking we should be taught more about how the world works and it feels sometimes as if things haven't moved on much.

One interesting thing, though: as a careers adviser occasionally working in schools, I have come across many young people who feel they're too young to be thinking about their future. This often applies to year 9s, but also to many year 10 and even some year 11 students.

[careersmum2]

As a parent and someone who works for a careers company, I see the real lack of connection between school work and the world of work. It's vital for kids to starting connecting what they do at school with their future. I try to point out to my 9 year old why he has to go to school (he thinks he should get paid like we do at work!) but it's never been a more important time for young people to get help. In terms of career aspirations I want to make sure that my child has choices and good support when making decisions that will affect the rest of his life.

For any parents who want help/resources for careers guidance there's a free Parents guide here:
www.cascaid.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/CAS-0812-CO080-Parents-Guide1.pdf

[carriemumsnet]

Thanks to everyone for all your really thoughtful responses. I went to a lunch with lots of influential folks in business and education and tried my best to make as many of your points as possible. Everyone left the meeting full of resolve to try and do something to make a difference and I'll endeavour to report back on what that turns out to be.

The report they were launching is here tinyurl.com/4b6lokq if anyone is interested.

Thanks again.

Carrie

[Dreamingspires]

I have only recently entered into the world of careers guidance through my work on The Skills Show (a huge vocational careers show at Birmingham NEC), and it?s been a real eye opener in terms of what is (or isn?t) available for students. I agree with Slambang, it is completely scandalous the way Connexions has been disbanded.

My only hope is that the proposed changes to Ofsted to formally assess school?s career guidance might change the way it?s currently being managed (although clearly more funding is needed to do this properly!)

Sam, I?ve been where you son is at a Grammar school and it?s not much fun. I eventually found a route into what I wanted to do, but it could have been much easier, quicker & cheaper if I?d been given good advice in the first instance. I really hope he finds what it is he wants to do. Have you thought of an Agricultural College?

To answer the OP?s questions:
~ First off did you know there was a National Careers Service for young people adults and have you / your DC ever used it?
No.
~ Are your children getting any careers advice in schools and if so what sort of age has that happened?
They?re not old enough yet
~ And what sort of career aspirations do you have for your children?
That they find something that they love doing and they try to be the best they can at it.

[Middlesexmummy]

Hello
Also declaring a vested interest here as a manager who manages a buy back service to schools and a neet service on behalf of the council . Back in the connections days the gvmt invested 200 million in the service . When power changed and connexions became a dirty word , a newservices emerged the national careers service which was funded by BIS who put it 70 million ( don't quote me) for tge adult partand the Dfe who put in roughly 7 million for the yp s part . The part for yp is only a phone line and for adults 1-1 s etc. local authorities received the early intervention grant and have been encouraged to support vulnerable yp through this . The services across the country differ and in some areas but predominantly it's for those who are Neet. The changes in the education bill meant that power went to school to employ careers services from a market provider but again some schools bought and others didn't they were given the power but no extra money . Sorry for the history lesson but I thought it useful to have all of the facts about why certain areas only see certain yp . I blame the government really for the lack of funding in the national careers service for yp. BIS put in millions to ensure adults got a good service but DFES only put enough to find a phone line . Young people should be entitled to free impartial careers guidance and in front of a professional in the same room , not on the phone or Skype !!!! Thankfully there has been lots of challenges to this and we hope to see some improvement for yp soon .
That's me off my soap box for now ( : xx

[JulesJules]

First off did you know there was a National Careers Service for young people adults and have you / your DC ever used it?

I didn't know. Never heard of it.

Are your children getting any careers advice in schools and if so what sort of age has that happened?

They are a bit young, the oldest has just turned 11. Nothing so far! I hope it will be better than the "advice" I got - I'd put geography and singing as favourite subject/ hobby and was recommended missionary work as a career

Career aspirations:

I want them to find work which they find interesting and rewarding.

[samonly]

-First off did you know there was a National Careers Service for young people adults and have you / your DC ever used it?

I don't think I did - and we need it - son might not get 4Ds in AS level and might have to leave school as a result

~ Are your children getting any careers advice in schools and if so what sort of age has that happened?

Only now (Yr12), school quite keen on him having insurance thing to do. He wants to do something outdoorsy like gardening but I'm not sure if that's because he feels stupid. Teacher at school careers person, said he needs to get something suitable for dyslexia but talks about this as if it is crippling disability (he has 8As gcses (incl eng, maths, foreign lang)/1A*(science)/1b/1c - I figure he is quite capable really). She talked to him about engineering apprenticeships in the food industry which seems quite far away from gardening. He was disheartened and confused. Careers info away from uni very difficult to find.

~ career aspirations: anything that he enjoys enough to stick at. Preferably not retail/luxury service that relies on other people having enough money to be customers. Although apparently nail bars are doing really well at the moment. Something he loves enough to make a go of. Would have said uni, plant science or similar would be ideal, but gardener, gardening apprentice would be fine too.

[insanityscratching]

Interested to read that Connexions work with NEETs I suppose that as mine went on to FE they wouldn't have had reason to give any input then although would be interested to know what input they are supposed to give to statemented children as we've not had any yet and ds will leave his independent specialist school next year. From what I can see his school seem to be doing all the legwork for his next placement.

[insanityscratching]

~ First off did you know there was a National Careers Service for young people adults and have you / your DC ever used it?
I had no idea there was a careers service still in existence despite having had four children leave school in the last 10 years. I thought it had been replaced by Connexions which in our area is quite possibly the biggest waste of resources known to man.

~ Are your children getting any careers advice in schools and if so what sort of age has that happened?
They see a Connexions advisor if they are lucky (or not depending on your viewpoint) I think this happened just before GCSE's. Unfortunately ds has SEN so we seem to be lumbered with Connexions for much longer than we might have been. Our worker turns up for Annual Reviews, does nothing and leaves only to return the next year which seems to be standard practise for them. In four years they have never spoken to ds or given any help or support whatsoever but seemed offended when I didn't mention them as being part of ds's support team

[headlesslambrini]

sam have you considered a horticultural / agricultural college? Don't know where about you are but our local(ish) one is Myerscough College. They offer both FE and HE courses - both as a residential basis. Sounds like your DS might be interested in this.

[flow4]

samonly, this is for you rather than the OP... Have you considered BTECs? I would definitely recommend them: my son is now doing one, and is engaged and interested and doing well for the first time in 3-4 years.

They are vocational level 3 qualifications - like A levels for people who (as you describe your son) are 'just not paper and pencil people'. There are BTECs in things like care, tourism, media, uniformed services, horticulture, IT, etc....

My DS did much worse than yours in his GCSEs, because although he's bright, he just was not interested in classroom learning, and had pretty much totally disengaged by the time he reached y11. The absence of careers advice and his poor confidence meant he ended up on a level 1 course last year that was intended basically to pick up those who would otherwise be NEET. He became even more disengaged and unconfident, and this time last year, predicted a life on the dole for himself :( I bribed and threatened him into going back to college, and (thank goodness) he got a place on a BTEC he was interested in... Now he's re-engaged and talking about uni... :)

And sam, frankly, with those GCSE results, your son can do anything he wants to do. Literally. No doors are closed to him yet. Don't let his school's lack of vision, ambition and aspiration limit his!

[flow4]

samonly, this is for you rather than the OP... Have you considered BTECs? I would definitely recommend them: my son is now doing one, and is engaged and interested and doing well for the first time in 3-4 years.

They are vocational level 3 qualifications - like A levels for people who (as you describe your son) are 'just not paper and pencil people'. There are BTECs in things like care, tourism, media, uniformed services, horticulture, IT, etc....

My DS did much worse than yours in his GCSEs, because although he's bright, he just was not interested in classroom learning, and had pretty much totally disengaged by the time he reached y11. The absence of careers advice and his poor confidence meant he ended up on a level 1 course last year that was intended basically to pick up those who would otherwise be NEET. He became even more disengaged and unconfident, and this time last year, predicted a life on the dole for himself :( I bribed and threatened him into going back to college, and (thank goodness) he got a place on a BTEC he was interested in... Now he's re-engaged and talking about uni... :)

And sam, frankly, with those GCSE results, your son can do anything he wants to do. Literally. No doors are closed to him yet. Don't let his school's lack of vision, ambition and aspiration limit his!

[samonly]

It's been terrible - son at a grammar school, told he has to leave if he gets

[itsnothingoriginal]

Also (was) a Careers Adviser so a vested interest but delighted to see this is finally being discussed!

I was made redundant a year ago and there are no jobs for me to apply for so I've been doing a huge amount of voluntary work. Basically helping young people who aren't getting any careers advice at school with CVs and job search etc.

The situation is terrible - the worst it's been in my 10 yrs in the job. Young people are being completely failed when they need IMPARTIAL careers advice more than ever - not just a few mins help from a class teacher..

I have friends who although lucky to keep their jobs now spend 90% of their time in an office rather than schools chasing NEET targets!!

Schools can't and won't pay for a decent careers service so young people will suffer as a result, potentially for the long term. Parents do need to know about the reality of the situation and not that careers advisers simply can't be bothered to help their child.

[TheFarSide]

Another careers adviser here. Nice to see some colleagues on here.

The government has stopped funding local authorities to provide a universal careers service for young people: the service is now focused on NEET reduction, and schools must now pay for a service they previously received for free. Some choose not to.

The National Careers Service for adults is target driven: contractors are paid a fee per interview: £50 in our area, from which the contractor must cover salaries and overheads. Contractors therefore engage in fee-maximising strategies, such as running group sessions rather than one-to-one interviews with a personalised action plan and follow up.

There used to be a requirement for careers advisers to hold a postgraduate diploma in careers guidance. Now, people with NVQ 3 in guidance can call themselves advisers: they are cheaper to hire though.

So, as with all public services, there is huge pressure to cut costs by paying lower salaries and rewarding quantity rather than quality of advice.

To those who have tales of poor careers advice in the past, I'm guessing that the advice came from a teacher unqualified in careers. Professionally qualified careers advisers don't tend to ignore their clients' wishes and persuade them to do something else.

[ArbitraryUsername]

I did know that there was some kind of careers service, but I've never used it. At school there were careers advisers, but they pretty much ignored those of us who would be going to university anyway.

My kids have never had any kind of careers advice, but they're 3 and 13 so I'd hope they'll get some when it's more relevant to them.

I have no career aspirations for my children. They can have their own aspirations. DS1 wants to go to university to do something STEMy be use he's good at maths and science. DS2 is 3, so he probably wants to be an octonaut.

[ConnexionsCareersAdviser]

NC, obviously.

I work as a careers adviser in one of the few remaining Connexions Services. We are also a sub contractor for the NCS.

In our area NCS are for 19+ and I think slowly word is getting round although there is very little publicity and it is a small service delivered in a disjointed fashion from several different organisations.

Connexions deliver to 13-19 (up to 25 for those with additional needs). In our local authority we have been bought in by all schools bar one (an academy) - the reason for this is that we are cheap, our LA subsidises us. When this stops, the schools won't bother and they'll attempt to deliver the service themselves with unqualified staff.

The Government need to understand that putting the responsibility to provide IAG into the hands of schools will be a disaster.

[KatieScarlett2833]

The Scottish system is working for adults. I refer loads to them and they are very positive about the service they receive.
Can't really comment on under 18s despite having a 17 and 16 year old. Both going to Uni so I suppose it's job done as far as my two are concerned.

[EmpressOfTheSevenOceans]

DD's 12 so not old enough yet, but I had a couple of sessions with the NCS when I was job hunting last year.

The adviser was pleasant and encouraging, but the CV templates she gave me were riddled with typos and inconsistent punctuation, capitalisation and spacing. In my previous job I'd have binned them very quickly.