Part time holiday allowance??

[Laralooz]

I am starting a new job doing 20 hours a week over 4 days. They said I get 12.5 days a year, but that doesn't seem right to me? Can anyone confirm if this is correct please??

Many thanks in advance
Xxx

[fossil971]

Our place adds the bank holidays so in our case a full time person gets 25+8 = 33 or 6.6 weeks. Then they pro-rata that down by the number of days on which you work. So if like me you work on 4 days (regardless of hours) you get 80% or 26.4 days. (I work 3 full days and one half). The reasoning being that to take a week off, you take 4 of your "days" off even if they are short days. Previously when I worked 5 short days, I had the full amount of days holiday even though my hours were virtually the same.

I still have to take bank holidays off, but since those are mostly in weeks I'd take as holiday anyway, I still book 4 days to holiday and get a week off. Technically I can maximise my holiday a bit by not taking my short days when i take an odd day.

This is exactly what flowery described I think.

[breatheslowly]

I agree that you don't need to know what full timers do or prorate that as you can just use 12.08%, but people seemed to be getting bogged down in either calculating in hours or days or weeks, but my point was that you get back to 112 hours or 22.4 days or 5.6 weeks whichever way you calculate it (assuming the statutory minimum).

[InMySpareTime]

Thingummy, it was one of the reasons I left, there were larger issues with lack of respect or recognition, it was made clear on a number of occasions that I was never going to get anywhere as a part-timer. I had a far better system in the job before that with a 50/50 job share. We both got 4 weeks, and when there was a week with a bank holiday we each worked 2 days instead of 2.5.
That felt much fairer, and was a better fit with family life.

[flowery]

"Wallison I thought anything over and above legally required minimum does not have to be treated the same as the 5.6 weeks. "

Part timers must get at least pro rata what full timers get, otherwise they are being treated less favourably which is illegal. Whether the employer offers the stat min 5.6 weeks or more makes no difference to that.

[ThingummyBob]

InMySpareTime, your employers gave the full entitlement due to both of you but then insisted that they effectively chose when you took the majority of it.
Not the best way to treat someone in a M/F job share like yours, but perfectly allowable.
Is that why its your ex job? Its their loss, console yourself that they'll probably have a high staff turnover if they are alyways like that...

Wallison I thought anything over and above legally required minimum does not have to be treated the same as the 5.6 weeks. Knowing what 'full timers' get is not a good indicator of much really.

[Wallison]

Which you have to do. By law. Employers are not allowed to discriminate against part-time workers. So actually the bank holidays are a legal entitlement, if other full-time workers in the company have them.

[ThingummyBob]

But then you are getting into comparing terms and conditions...

[InMySpareTime]

My previous job used breatheslowly's method. I worked Mondays and Fridays and ended up with either 4 or 5 days (2 weeks) annual leave plus BHs.
The logic behind this is that between me and my job-share we equalled a full timer. All BHs fell on my work days but I was only entitled to 2/5 of them, so they came off my annual leave entitlement.
On the other hand, my jobshare partner had 15 or 16 days annual leave (5 weeks) and didn't work BHs.
What annoyed me most was that I did overtime most weeks but did not accrue extra annual leave for extra days worked.

[Wallison]

Yes but what her total entitlement is depends on what bank holidays employees at her company get. So it's not 'Simples' or accurate to state otherwise.

[ThingummyBob]

Exactly wallison.

Discrimination against part time workers is a separate issue from what the OP is entitled to by law.

She is entitled to 112 hours per year minimum, or 22.4 working days (rounded up to nearest half day if required - rounding down is not allowed.)

If she is unable to work on a bank holiday as the business is closed or whatnot, she will need to deduct 5 hours from her entitlement.

Simples

[Wallison]

Well, let's just assume that the OP isn't going to go comparing her/himself to the Company Secretary or whatever.

[ThingummyBob]

If they are both employed at the same company under comparable terms and conditions of course.

[flowery]

You need to know what holiday f/t get.

Whoever said p/t employees get 8 bank holidays whether they fall on normal working days or not is wrong.

All holiday should be pro rata, whether it's bank holiday or normal annual leave.

If f/t employees get 25 days plus 8 bank holidays, total of 33, you should get 4/5 of that as you are working 4 days a week.

33/5x4= 26.4 (round up to 26.5) including your bank holiday allowance, so all bank holidays that fall on your normal working days would be taken out of that.

If f/t employees get 20 days plus 8 bank holidays, total of 28, you should get 28/5x4= 22.4 (again probably round up to 22.5), including bank holiday pro rata allowance.

Obviously one day's holiday for you would be 5 hours rather than 7.5 or whatever f/timers get.

[Wallison]

Yes. Because what full-time employees are getting is what part-time employees should be getting pro-rata if they are both employed at the same company. So if the OP is working at a place where full-time employees get bank holidays in addition to statutory holiday pay, then she will also be entitled to it.

[ThingummyBob]

Bank holidays do not even come in to holiday entitlement wallison.

Linky here www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/entitlement

Are you thinking about contractual holiday pay over and above what is legally required?

[ThingummyBob]

Also, what full time empoyees are doing is also irrelevent. They will each be entitled to 5.6 weeks of their own hours. No pro rata-ing (?!) from f/t to p/t is necessary at all.

Someone on full time hours of 40 per week due to (9-6 with 30 mins lunch) at the same company as someone who works full time on 37.5 hours per week (9-6 with 1hr lunch break) will both receive their own entitlement of 5.6 weeks per year; so 224 hours for the 40 hrs worker and 210 for the 37.5 hrs - both equate to 28 days away from their desks.

[Wallison]

Not exactly. If full-timers get bank holidays then part-timers get them too. If nobody in the company gets paid bank holidays on top of their entitlement, then part-timers don't either, but employers are not allowed to discriminate against part-time workers.

[ThingummyBob]

breatheslowly - bank holidays are totally irrelevent for calculating holiday entitlement.

[ThingummyBob]

If you work 5 hours per day x 4 days per week you are entitled to 112 hours paid holiday for one year, irrespective of when bank holidays fall.

For each bank holiday you have as leave you will deduct 5 hours from the 112 hours total.

Bank holidays are included in your total holiday entitlement for the year.Your employers must pay you the correct amount of holiday per year but (unless contractually given) you have no rights to choose when this holiday is taken, therefore bank holidays will be deducted from your total annual allowance.

For anyone working irregular hours the figure for paid holiday entitlement is 12.08% of hours actually worked.

[Wallison]

Bruffin has the right way of doing it, but check first how many hours a 'full time' week involves - at some places it's 37.5, at others it's 35. I don't think it's 40 in many places, so doing a straight half doesn't work out - if you're working 20 hours a week, then you're doing more than half-time. Include any bank holidays that full-timers get in your calculation and pro rata them as well - not all firms have bank holidays in addition to the statutory entitlement but if they offer them to full-timers they should offer them to part-timers too because to do otherwise is discriminatory.

[Metalgoddess]

You should still get the same number of weeks off as full timers, it'd just that you don't need as many days to get a full week off. I work 3 days a week and get 22 days off which equals just over 7 weeks.

[breatheslowly]

I don't agree that PT workers get all 8 bank holidays, in my experience it is pro rated based either on the hours or days worked.

As the OP works the same number of hours each day calculating in hours or days will get to the same result.

Using hours, if the FT week is 40 hours then FT holiday is 5.6*40 hours = 224 hours. The OP works 20 hours so is entitled to half as much holiday as a FT worker, 224/2= 112 hours. Since the OP works 5 hours in each of her working days 112/5 = 22.4. This includes bank holidays, so any bank holidays falling on work days must be taken out of that allowance.

If we calculate using days, a 5 day a week worker (assuming the same number of hours each day) gets 5.65 days = 28 days. The OP works 4 days so is entitled to 28/54 = 22.4 days.

Assuming you were there at the start of the year and your leave year runs jan to Dec then there are the following bank holidays:

1 Jan Tues
29 March Fri
1 April Mon
6 May Mon
27 May Mon
26 Aug Mon
25 Dec Wed
26 Dec Thurs

7 of the 8 bank holidays fall on your working days so you need to take 7 days off your 22.4 days, leaving 15.4 days if holiday excluding bank holidays. This will vary each year depending on how the bank holidays fall in relation to your day off. I am not certain whether this is a new job and whether you started it after the beginning of your employer's leave year.

[Laralooz]

Ok thanks I will speak to them tomorrow then. This is all so confusing, didn't think it would be xxx

[Picturesinthefirelight]

14.5 days plus 8 paid bank holidays whether or not they fall on your usual working day

However it would beach easier to say 22.5 days including bank holidays.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

There is no statutory entitlment to paid bank holidays unless your employer specifically says so in your contract.