applying for jobs advertised full-time when you want to work part-time

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

I am sure I'm not alone in lamenting the complete (and I mean complete) dearth of jobs advertised as part or potentially part-time in my field. Having said that I know that in reality there is scope for flexibility and part-time work, but they just don't mention it at the advertising stage. I am thinking of applying for a couple of jobs advertised as full time. what do people think is the best approach - ask about the potential for part-time prior to applying? mention it at interview (no doubt affecting their decision-making about offering you a f-t post, however hard they stick to their fair equal ops proceedures) or keep stum and if they offer you the job mumble some utterly transparent bullshit that for some reason had never occured to you til now. I think the latter strategy is actually the most likely to get you a part-time job but it also makes you look devious. any opinions?

[Twiglett]

can you find someone with whom you could go in as a job-share .. so interview together as a team?

depends what you do I suppose

maybe I should do that when I return (3 more years )

[tamum]

I did exactly this, but I explained in advance that although I wanted the job I would only accept it if they were prepared to let me work part-time. It was definitely a high risk strategy. They asked me not to mention it at the interview, as they wanted the HR-y types to agree that I was the best candidate and then fight the battle to make the post part-time. I'm an academic though, I don't know how well this would have played in a more commercial envirnoment (well, I think I can guess). The other thing to mention was that I said I would agree to 4 days a week, and did this for about 18 months, and then negotiated down to 3 days once I had proved to them that I could do it.

It's not east, is it? Good luck, though.

[FrayedKnot]

I did apply for a couple of full-time jobs and I did mention it in my application (both were public sector and so had flexible working policies).

I did get an interview for one post but don;t think I had enough technical ability so don't know what would have happened if it had got a stage further.

I did end up finding something part-time, the hours, company & benefits are good, the pay is sh*te, but I am hoping once I have proved myslef I will be able to negotiate a rise.

Good luck with your searching, I got very demoralised at one point (lack of anything to apply for etc) but just keep going, you will find something eventually!

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

in fact tamum - one of the posts is a teaching post at a university, the other is a research post at a think tank. - so you mentioned it in your pre-interview informal chat? and then not at interview? what are hr people like ay? we have to play silly games with them like that where I currently work. although less so now cos we somehow managed to maneouvre them out of the interviews - quite a coup!

Twiglet - I'm not sure if I know anyone (except for people I currently work with which brings up questions of diplomacy etc). When I was lying in bed last night I came up with what I personally think would be a really good idea - a job-sharing website - for people to find matches for themselves. there must be so many people frustrated by this kind of thing. anyway if I wanted to set up a website, that's what I'd do. as it is, I don't. I;d just like someone else to do it for me!

[FrayedKnot]

Oh yes sorry forgot I also phoned them prior to applying to find out if they would consider flexible working etc, which they both said they would.

I would not have applied if they had definitely said they could / would not, as didn;t want to waste my/their time.

Every time I had an intereview DH had to take holiday off to look after DS etc and I was getting interviews for most of the things I applied for (was being quite selective iyswim about the type of jobs though).

So I only wanted to target jobs where there was a good chance they would consider part time if I was the right person.

[compo]

is there any way you could take on a full time job for sa 6 months and then ask to go down the part-time jobshare route? IME places get very annoyed if part-timers apply for full time jobs so I would definitely ring up and check first.

[tamum]

Hi again thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat- that is pretty similar then, isn't it? I went to speak to the Professors who were named as contact people for informal enquiries in the original advert, and that's when I raised it. I knew if they were on side they would be able to swing it. One of them then rang me that day before the interview and asked me not to mention anything about part-time working at the interview, because the panel included people from on high in the faculty, and they were the people to whom he had had to justify the need for a new full-time post. Once they had all agreed that I was the best person for the job then the prof was able to say "well we can only have her if we agree to let her be part time blah blah", and that was an easier argument to make. HR themselves were no problem. My gut feeling is that it's much easier for them to say no if you raise it after the offer has been made, but that depends on how cool a head you can keep, and on their personalities, the exact job and so on. Because I mainly do research a job-share was out of the question, you would never find someone in exactly the same field wanting to do that, and it's just too personal in any case.

Do keep us posted, won't you? Hoxtonchick works part-time at a think tank (I don't think I'm revealing anything she hasn't said on here), so it might be worth trying to speak to her.

[fennel]

thewoman..., I'm also an academic and have got part time jobs when only full time was offered. I have always contacted them beforehand and discussed it with them. Then you can make it clear how you think it would work for the job they are offering. Research is particularly easy to vary hours and times on, I think, as long as you can convince them you'd be good for the job in general.

i had a jobshare once it was horrible, really. would be reluctant to do that again. jobshared with an utter bitch. and i don't say that about most people i have worked with.

[tamum]

Just thought of another thing- worth mentioning, even if it does sound like "show-offing" as dd calls it. They told me when I was appointed that I should give up any thought of promotion as long as I was part-time, which I was happy to go along with at the time. I have, however, been promoted twice since then, most recently without ever mentioning my part-time status, which I was particularly chuffed about. So don't despair if they try that one with you....

[RedTartanLass]

thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat, I know a couple of women who have applied for and been offered full-time jobs. Both said they would only accept if they could work part-time, one friend was given the job, the 2nd was refused. However 3 months later, my 2nd friend was offered the position on a part-time basis, as they couldn't find anyone better than her!!

I'm also applying for jobs and if I get offered a position I am keen on, I am only going to accept, if I can work 4 days!! If they want me enough, they will agree to anything!! If they don't, well I have lost anything by asking and will continue to search!!

I know my own worth, and if they can't be flexible, why on earth would I want to work for them!!

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

thanks everyone. those of you at universities can I ask a related q - there are two names on the job advert given as people that can be contacted for an informal chat/ask questions. One is the head of the particular course, the other is the head of the department. one gives his email, one his email plus telephone (obvisouly it would not be diffiult to get the other one on the phone via the switchboard) - am I to assume that they are only willing to chat over the phone/receive email queries. Would it be cheeky to ask if I could come and meet them?

[tamum]

Do you have any feel for how many people are likely to be applying for the post? If they are expecting to be inundated they may be less willing to see people than if there are only going to be a handful of suitable qualified candidates, I would think. I haven't dealt with senior appointments, but when we advertise for PhD students I tend to gently discourage visits from those who I am sure won't make the shortlist, but if there's a real star I will usually try and accommodate them before the interview.

Having said all that, my approach (for what it's worth- it may well not be the right one!) would be to email one of them, probably the one who gives a phone number as well, and ask if it would be possible to come and see him/her for a brief chat. Incidentally, I always give an email address rather than phone because I'm part time, and can deal with emails from home, of course!

What field are you in, roughly? I just wonder if it would be worth trying to get Ellbell's input- she in Arts rather than science, and is a HoD.

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

Hi again - thanks for yuor input - it's really useful. I am not sure my heart is in this job - can't quite make my mind up. I don;t want to get too specific but I'll try to explain my siutation a bit. (don;t feel obliged to read! but you may be able to help a bit) First off, I am not interested in a truly academic career - I don;t think at the ripe old age of 35 that a phd is the best way to use my skills, neither do I think I'm suited to pure academia. However my area is one in which a number of people succesfully straddle a number of roles - policy advice for NGOs (which is what I do now), think tank work, consultancy, odd bits of lecturing, publishing a bit in relevant journals. really this is how I see myself going for the next few years - I'd like to go where the interesting work is and not worry too much which of these camps it falls into, if that makes sense. Now the job that I have seen advertised would be great except that it is almost exclusively teaching - mostly undergraduates, and is largely about developing the curriculum for a new BA. Very little emphasis on research. The plus side is they are interested in people like me, and a phd is not essential. The downside is that it's a very middle of the road university (an ex poly), but then again, if it wasn;t they would want a phd. So - I'm really not sure how 2 or 3 or 4 years teaching (and probably getting very little research done)in this environment would look on my cv. And the fear is that it could very easily turn into 10 or 15 years...and, well, that would be me: a sociology lecturer at a leafy ex poly, as dh keeps saying and grinning inanely. Not sure if there's much wrong with that....oh I don;t know....

[tamum]

Hi again :) That sounds an interesting field. Do you mind if I give you my absolute honest opinion (and obviously feel free to ignore it if you have loads of teaching experience and know what you're letting yourself in for)? Teaching takes up way, way more hours than the number of hours spent actually giving lectures. Not just the preparation, but the huge amount of admin that can be associated with courses. Starting a new course is likely to double if not treble that workload, and the time involved in preparing lectures is enormous when you are giving them for the first time (that may just be me, actually, but as a guide it takes me nearly a week to prepare a new lecture that isn't my specialist area). It may be absolutely fine, but what I would be really concerned about it is that they might happily take you on to work part-time but without actually lessening your load. You could find yourself very over-stretched and stressed. This is a real worst-case scenario, but it's worth thinking how you would feel if it did end up like this. I would bet a lot of money that your instincts are right and that the time available for research would be very scarce.

In terms of your CV you might easily find that think tank work would look a lot better than teaching, but obviously if you took to teaching then that would be better for your CV! I think you need to pump them for as much information as possible, and be prepared for them glossing over how much work is involved.

I am being a bit gloom-mongering, sorry. Feel free to CAT me if I can help any more, by the way.

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

thanks tamum. (are you trying to get some work done today by any chance?) tbh you have confirmed much of what I thought. I too would spend a huge amount of time preparing lectures, mainly coz I would be paranoid about getting caught out in someway! The fact that "scolarly activity to maintain personal expertise" is 7th on the job description, certainly makes me think it would be a real bare minimum. I have the chance to ask the opinion of someone tomorrow who is exactly one of these "straddlers" in my field (and an irritatingly good one). Thanks again - your input very much appreciated. I'll report back at some stage.

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

if I'm serious about this I ought to know how to spell scholarly...

[hoxtonchick]

hi hatter, tamum's right, i do work part-time for a think tank. and since going back after having dd i'me even more part-time - 2 days a week rather than 2.5. i got the job when ds was about a year, so they've always had me part-time. it's really super-flexible, lots of people work part-time/have small children - i think the culture makes such a difference. hope that helps your decision-making process a little.

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

hi hoxtonchick, hope you and the little ones are well. are you coy about saying which think tank you work for in public? I'd love to know, but obviously understand if you are. (same goes for me). There's one particular think tank job on the go at the moment that I'd like to apply for, but even if not this job I think it's a route I'd definitely like to explore. am fed up with perpetual planning cycles and other horrendous stuff I get to do in current job, whilst farming out the interesting stuff to consultants.

[hoxtonchick]

hope you're all well too. i work for the king's fund, we're a health policy think tank. proximity to all the shops in oxford st clearly has nothing to do with my job satisfaction .

when will you finish your degree? have you got to go back to your former employers?

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

hi - I finish in August and technically have signed to say I'll go back for a year, and tbh, I would like to honour that (although loads of people don;t). So I'm not actively looking for jobs but I am signed up for a couple of weekly jobs emails (always have been) and it just so happened that there were 2 jobs this week that I just coulnd't ignore. One (the think tank one) coz it's pretty much exactly what I hoped to start looking for after my year back at work, and one coz - to put it bluntly - it's literally less than 5 minutes walk from my house and 10 minutes walk from dds' school. Like you and the shops I of course won;t allow this to sway me but I'd be mad not to give it some consideration.

[hoxtonchick]

working locally would mean such a lot though.

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

i know. I decided I wouldn't go down the teaching route, unless it came up at this particular institution. and it has...now I really can't make up my mind if it's the right thing or not. why does everything in life have to effect everything else? that 's why it's complicated. And inside I'm thinking...you could get a dog..you could walk it every lunch time. In fact I happen to know that my laptop can detect the university wireless network from my bedroom. I could work in bed. (well, maybe not the actual teaching bit...and I'm not sure how dds would get to school...)

[hoxtonchick]

i think you should get more information, definitely. weren't you thinking about another baby too???????

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

hmmm...thinking..yes...can't quite shake it off...is at the back of my mind and all that...but am pretty sure it won't happen. I'm useless at decisions...baby...dog...new job....I'll just sit tight and see which one shows up. My uselessness is somewhat highlighted on mn by a tendency to consult everyone when ideas are at a far ealier stage than i would ever consult in real life...

[fennel]

if you like to work in bed i suspect research based jobs are going to give you far more duvet time and opportunities to walk the dog than lectureships, especially a lectureship in a new university.

but i'm biased, I do mainly research.