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Original poster

Working second job while off sick from main job

74 replies

EasterBenny · 08/04/2012 12:30

That's it really - is it appropriate to work your second job while being off sick (stress related) from your main full time job?

Best friend is in this situation, I don't want to stress her out more my bringing it up, but I'm worried that if her main employer finds out (and it would be pretty easy for them to, to be honest) that she'll be in trouble.

OP posts:

iliketea · 08/04/2012 13:21

I'm not sure about the legalities of it, but I would think if her main employer found out that she was working somewhere else while being off sick there would be trouble for her.

Also, if she's signed off sick by a doctor, she shouldn't be working anywhere as I don't think employers insurance covers someone at work who is deemed unfit to be at work.

PinkPanther27 · 08/04/2012 13:30

I'm signed off sick and not working either job - she wouldnt be covered health wise as far as I'm aware and Im sure the other employer would frown upon it. Someone at my work allegedly did this and got into loads of trouble

flowery · 08/04/2012 14:30

Not sure about 'appropriate'.

If she is signed off sick her doctor should have completed a fit note, which should indicate that either she is not fit to do any work at all, or she is fit to do x amount/type of work. If she is fit to work one job but not another, her doctor would have indicated that on her fit note.

If her doctor has signed her as being unfit to do any work then of course that would include both jobs. She could get into trouble at her second job for coming into work when unfit, and yes her main employer will be likely to question why she needs to be signed off from them if she is fit to work elsewhere.

Are the jobs completely different? Why does she feel fit to work one and not the other?

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 14:45

Hi OP,

If she is signed off with stress due to main job she is certainly not doing anything wrong.

SSP is per employment, not per person. If she was off sick from both she would be entitled to SSP from both. (Same goes for maternity just as an aside.)

There is a valid arguement that attending the second job will actually help her to overcome the issues surrounding her absence from the first iyswim? Especially if her problems are work-stress related.

Her Doctor would no doubt back her up, but if her main employer decided to 'punish' her in any way (ie dismiss/constructively dismiss/re-grade or change her current conditions) she could win hands down at any following tribunal.

Flowery for instance, a person off with stress may be perfectly capable of working in a less stressful environment iyswim? (banker with part time job in pub for example.)

PinkPanther person at your work should not have got in any trouble if the situation was as above. It would be up to the employer (in a tribunal) to prove that the employee should have been able to work for them and not that they shouldn't have worked for the second employer.

Employers rarely never to my knowledge win in cases where they question the judgement of the medical personnel involved.

Northernlurker · 08/04/2012 14:47

If she's claiming sick pay from one employer whilst working for another she is potentially commiting fraud - because she's claiming sick pay when she is in fact well enough for work.

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 14:47

Employers, especially larger ones like to spread the myth that they own their employee's.

They don't

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 14:48

northernlurker its not fraud at all. SSP is granted by employment, not person. In the same way that a lady with two jobs fulfilling the criteria can expect full maternity rights from each, including two lots of SMP.

Northernlurker · 08/04/2012 14:51

No they don't - but the policies of my employer - (NHS) - are very clear about this issue and how it is regarded. Some staff have had proceedings taken against them (succesfully) because they were calling in sick to one job whilst working as relief staff for another Trust - and thus claiming both sick pay and pay. Admittedly that relates to staff working in the same 'area' and not totally unrelated occupations.

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 14:51

See here - www.hmrc.gov.uk/employers/employee_sick_supp.htm

Northernlurker · 08/04/2012 14:51

Sorry - I am speaking about occupational sick pay not SSP.

Meglet · 08/04/2012 14:53

hmm, I never knew this.

I was signed off sick from my (then) main job a couple of years ago and had to stop going to my much nicer second job too. My main job had a thicky boss and an awful commute, whereas my second job was fine.

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 14:54

and here -

for the maternity aspect I mentioned... not something employers like to shout about from my experience.

northernlurker no one in the NHS has two contracts of employment, that is the difference. What you mention is contractually fundamental to the NHS, but not for two employements as per the op.
hth.

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 14:54

Bugger - www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/spmmanual/spm20250.htm

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 14:56

meglet you were perfectly within your rights to carry on at second job - I think you hit the nail on the head with the thicky boss bit

As I said, no employer I've ever dealt with has advertised the (statutory) rights of the employee in these circs. They are all shits.

flowery · 08/04/2012 15:47

"If she is signed off with stress due to main job she is certainly not doing anything wrong."

We don't know nearly enough about the situation to state that. If the doctor has signed her as being fit for job 2 despite being unfit for job 1, then that's probably the case, yes. But we don't know that.

"Her Doctor would no doubt back her up, but if her main employer decided to 'punish' her in any way (ie dismiss/constructively dismiss/re-grade or change her current conditions) she could win hands down at any following tribunal."

Again we don't know anything like enough to say whether she would win "hands down" at a tribunal.

"Flowery for instance, a person off with stress may be perfectly capable of working in a less stressful environment iyswim? (banker with part time job in pub for example.)"

Yes, that's why I asked about what exactly the doctor had signed her off from and whether the jobs were very different.

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 16:02

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Original poster

EasterBenny · 08/04/2012 16:12

It's good to know that she may be absolutely fine to be doing her second job, thank you. The second job is her own business in a way, don't want to say to much but it's something she does from home and in other people's homes.

OP posts:

flowery · 08/04/2012 16:20

Er yeah, ok. I know nothing.

Stress-related doesn't mean it's automatically work-related. And even if it if, just because stress was originally caused by job 1 doesn't automatically mean she is fine to work job 2. It depends what the job is and how her symptoms manifest themselves, and her doctor should advise her. Which we can't.

flowery · 08/04/2012 16:21

even if it is, sorry

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 16:45

If she is signed off with stress due to main job she is certainly not doing anything wrong.

Flowery I've bolded the words in my original post which you seem to have missed. Its up to the employee to decide if she/he can/cannot work the second job. Not even the doctor has to decide that.

as I said SSP and all attached conditions are per employment not per person. As the HMRC manuals I've linked clarify.
hth.

Easterbunny - even more sure now, as self employment is totally, 100% separate to statury rights for employees. The only caveat to that is if she has signed a contract with her employers which states she must not have her own interests outside of said employment. She would likely be very aware of such a condition in her contract imo.

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 16:46

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MrsCampbellBlack · 08/04/2012 16:48

'Flowery you know nothing' - funniest thing I've read on here for quite a while

KatieMiddleton · 08/04/2012 16:49

at MissKeithLemon's rudeness!

I just wanted to say... I agree with Flowery.

MrsCampbellBlack · 08/04/2012 16:50

My face was like that too Katie.

I have seen over the years just how much help flowery has given people in this topic.

Pretty sure its possible to post a different point of view without the rudeness.

MissKeithLemon · 08/04/2012 17:19

But flowery is wrong! I wasn't rude until she misquoted MY post!!

It is terrible to go about bandy-ing things as fact when they are not no?!

The OP - had she not heard otherwise may have believed her friend to committing fraud!!

I'm sure flowery has been helpful over the years - but in this instance she is wrong.

She stated that the OP's question depended on certain things it did not -

It depends what the job is and how her symptoms manifest themselves, and her doctor should advise her.

(Which I had already pointed out to be incorrect - and provided links to HMRC to show clarification)

flowery apologies for being rude, I have stopped smoking this week and my head is up my own arse, I am sorry.

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