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DP being accused of gross misconduct, help!

38 replies

Answerplease · 25/09/2010 17:49

This is going to be a whopper of a post, sorry! But would really appreciate any advice that anyone can give.

On Tuesday, DP was informed that he had carried out an act of gross misconduct and was to be suspended on full pay from work, namely 'conflict of interest and breach of intellectual property' (this is all that was stated on his letter telling him he was facing a disciplinary and was being suspended) due to a website he has. This misconduct is alleged (he assumed - he was not told this) because the website states he is open to freelance work (something that is specifically allowed in the employees handbook), and contains images of some work he did (although not anything like enough for anyone to be able to copy the work).

DP went to what he thought was the disciplinary hearing, only to find out it was the evidence gathering session, and did his best to defend himself, despite not being very clear on what he was accused of. At the end of this meeting he asked for further clarification of the allegations before the disciplinary hearing, next week.

He was sent a letter today (2 days later) which lays out a much more involved list of accusations, including:

  1. Alleged soliciting of freelance work (which is allowed in the employee handbook, as long as there is no conflict of interest, so don't really get that)
  2. Misrepresentation of himself (no idea how he is doing this)
  3. Detrimental impact on the business (NB. he hasn't actually carried out any freelance work, so not sure business is suffering)
  4. Breach of covenant - knowing that any approach for freelance work would be in direct competition and not permitted by the company (I just don't see that this is true, as he is trained in 2 types of work, and the other isn't at all in competition, and even the design side of his job involves lots of different aspects, very few of them in competition with his company if he were to do them)
  5. Breach of intellectual property, particularly copyright and publishing rights in publishing the results of a piece of his design work on his website (a photo he took himself on his own camera).


He has also just received the minutes from the evidence gathering hearing, and they contain several massive omissions and lots of small omissions and some significant errors. These changes do not make DP exactly appear guilty, but make him seem unhelpful, ill-prepared and unwilling to defend himself, compared to how he actually was in the meeting. This leads us to believe that the minutes were either taken completely incompetently or were doctored by the manager before being sent to DP.

Other relevant facts include the fact that the same manager carrying out the disciplinary also tried to give DP a written warning 4 months ago without a disciplinary procedure (DP requested a disciplinary before being given a warning, manager agreed then just abandoned proceedings). No warning was issued. This followed on from a redundancy process during which no member of staff was made redundant, but the other two members of staff (DP was the third) are understood to have been much more cowed and alarmed by the process than DP was - he was described as argumentative (by this same manager) for standing up for himself during the redundancy process, when false allegations (albeit minor ones) were made about his conduct.

We are so lost with how to to proceed! Our main questions are:
  1. Is it OK that his manager has only properly outlined the charges against DP after the evidence gathering session - DP believes that these accusations may have been massaged to fit the evidence he gave, but they are more of an expansion on the original accusations, I suppose [charitable head]
  2. DP feels that this guy, for whatever reason, has a bit of a vendetta against him (given the manager's previous attempt to give him a written warning with no disciplinary). We are unsure whether to start a grievence for bullying or anything - is there any point? How would we prove it?
  3. If freelance work is allowed in his employees handbook, how the hell can it be a sack-worthy offence to be openly available for freelance work?
  4. Does anyone have any ideas about DP posting the photos of the completed product (well, part of it)? Is it really that awful? images of the item are now in the public domain, and it is in a public place and could be photographed by anyone, as it could at the time he photographed it, although it does still belong to the manufacturer (it's a big, single item, like a luxury car, now parked in a public car park)
  5. Can we do anything about the hugely inaccurate minutes? DP will obviously raise this issue in the next meeting, but if it is minuted as badly as this one, it probably won't show in the minutes!


Ummm... any other thoughts/questions much appreciated!
OP posts:
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flowerybeanbag · 25/09/2010 19:54
  1. Is it OK that his manager has only properly outlined the charges against DP after the evidence gathering session - DP believes that these accusations may have been massaged to fit the evidence he gave, but they are more of an expansion on the original accusations, I suppose [charitable head]


Yes, as long as the charges are properly outlined to him in enough time prior to the disciplinary hearing for him to prepare a defence.

  1. DP feels that this guy, for whatever reason, has a bit of a vendetta against him (given the manager's previous attempt to give him a written warning with no disciplinary). We are unsure whether to start a grievence for bullying or anything - is there any point? How would we prove it?


You could do. You don't have to 'prove' it as such, just outline lots of evidence to give an overall picture. You could raise a grievance or when the disciplinary is finished you could appeal it putting in all that stuff. The advantage of putting in a grievance would be probably slowing the whole thing down.

  1. If freelance work is allowed in his employees handbook, how the hell can it be a sack-worthy offence to be openly available for freelance work?


I think you said freelance work unless there is a conflict of interest. I think you should see a solicitor because I think someone needs to go through your DP's restrictive covenant in his contract with a fine toothcomb to work out whether the kind of freelance work he was available for and the type of client he was aiming at might constitute a conflict of interest.

  1. Does anyone have any ideas about DP posting the photos of the completed product (well, part of it)? Is it really that awful? images of the item are now in the public domain, and it is in a public place and could be photographed by anyone, as it could at the time he photographed it, although it does still belong to the manufacturer (it's a big, single item, like a luxury car, now parked in a public car park)


Yes that's pretty bad really.

  1. Can we do anything about the hugely inaccurate minutes? DP will obviously raise this issue in the next meeting, but if it is minuted as badly as this one, it probably won't show in the minutes!


Yes as I think you have done, forward your version of the minutes, pointing out the discrepancies and making it clear you do not accept their version as an accurate reflection of the conversation.

Give the IP and restrictive covenant issues, I agree with everyone who says your DP should try and see a solicitor as soon as possible.
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howdidthishappenthen · 25/09/2010 19:54

Your friend is right. I've been there, done this. It need not be a disaster - negotiate well, remember this is a commercial transaction and nothing more, and DH will exit with a couple of months money and an excellent reference. Very very scary and traumatic whilst it's going on (and prob going to get worse, I'm afraid) but just about everyone who goes through it gets another job and looks back a year later from a much happier place.

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Hopefully · 25/09/2010 20:16

Flowery we don't actually want to slow the whole thing down really (one of the reasons for DP not to put in a grievance in fact), as DP is desperate to get this sorted and get back to work/start looking for a new job. I think he'd rather leave it to an appeal (where presumably this guy won't be involved), but I just don't know whether he'd be better off filing the grievance.

Urgh, it's all so grim Sad.

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LucindaCarlisle · 25/09/2010 20:21

Please relax. I honestly think that the company has produced ill-thought out trumped up charges without understanding the legal terms.

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Hopefully · 25/09/2010 20:31

I (a) need to relax and (b) need to realise that they've probably decided to get rid of him one way or another, and start accepting the prospect of him looking for a new job. Nearest company in a similar line of work is about 100 miles away. Sob.

Although Lucinda you're probably at least partially right - the guy in charge of HR (who is also the person doing this disciplinary, and the person who did redundancies/the non-disciplinary a ew months back) was working on the factory floor a few years ago, and has done no formal training in HR. So his understanding isn't going to be up there with lots of the brilliant HR people I've had the good luck to deal with [suddenly grateful for massive HR department in my huge multi-national ex-employer]

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howdidthishappenthen · 25/09/2010 20:38

It's going to be OK. Repeat after me. It.IS.Going.To.Be.Ok.

Invest a couple of quid in www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_14?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=what%20colour%20is%20your%20parachute%202010&x=0&y=0&sprefix=what%20colour%20is&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 on Amazon - a bit seventies, but very enlightening about all the trillions of choices available to you. You will be refreshed :-)

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Hopefully · 25/09/2010 20:58

Thanks howdidthis. Need to keep repeating. Think I've seen that book in the library - should go and have a read.

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Hopefully · 27/09/2010 19:07

Just a quick update - DP spoke to ACAS and a solicitor this morning. When they were first outlined the case they were both quite pessimistic, but once they'd had a chance to look at DP's website and the accusations laid out against him, they were much more confident that the accusations in no way constitute gross misconduct. Both agree that a verbal warning, or even a non-disciplinary meeting should have been enough to solve this matter.

FWIW (just in case someone is looking for information on something similar), neither of them believe he has breached IP, only that, at worst, he should have asked his employers before posting the pictures (which is not in his employee handbook, but obviously would have been good manners).

DP has also been advised to leave filing a grievance against the manager in question for now.

I will update on what happens after the disciplinary hearing tomorrow.

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claricebeansmum · 27/09/2010 19:21

IME I will re-iterate what someone else has said - when something like this happens and however it turns out your DH has to start looking for a new job now. Probably not what you want to hear but staying where he is going to be untenable in the long term.

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Hopefully · 02/10/2010 21:52

Well, the worst has happened - DP has been sacked Sad.

We're going to talk to ACAS on Monday about our appeal options, but I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts.

Among other things, DP has been sacked because:

  1. The company has stated that it cannot 'prove or disprove' that DP 'has or hasn't undertaken any freelance work which might have had a detrimental effect on the company'. DP is not registered as self employed (so they are accusing him of defrauding the govt too?), and has vehemently denied carrying out any freelance work. Can they sack him for something that they can't prove either way?


  1. They state that his website implies he is a free agent (i.e. a contractor, not employed by his company). (a) it doesn't (it states clearly that he is employed by his employer and enjoys it there) and (b) even if it did, I don't get why it would be gross misconduct? I appreciate that it might be worthy of someone asking him to change it, although I'm not sure how it could be made even more explicit.


  1. He was soliciting for freelance work which would be in direct competition and a conflict of interest. (a) there is no exclusion in his employee handbook regarding soliciting freelance work (it states he must ask his employer's permission before carrying out freelance work, which he would have done, had he been offered any), (b) Surely it is untrue to imply that all freelance work would be in conflict of interest. What if someone had asked him to design an entirely different product? (DP is a design engineer). Again, this is all hypothetical, as no freelance work was carried out, but they seem to think that any and all freelance work that he might carry out would be in competition.


The final item regards the IP discussed above, but not in the way we initially suspected. Here the sacking point is him putting up the photo before the product was released. DP has proof (from the logs of when he changed his website) that this is untrue (it went up a month after), so I'm guessing that particular point won't be hard to appeal?

Any thoughts that you might have at all would be really appreciated! We're talking to ACAS on Monday.
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LucindaCarlisle · 02/10/2010 23:58

Submit a claim to ACAS of wrongful dismissal. Or Unfair dismissal.

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Marchpane · 03/10/2010 00:16

Firstly he will need to appeal as per the decision letter. Then if he doesn't want to go back there he needs to start working towards a settlement and I would suggest contacting a solicitor with a view to lodging an et1 with the employment tribunal service.

He should collect together every scrap of evidence he has: emails, letters, appraisal documents etc and compiling a timeline of events ready for the potential tribunal case.

If he has any legal cover on his home or motor insurance he'll need to claim before appointing a solicitor as they will probably have a preferred panel.

Good luck

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Mumi · 03/10/2010 00:52

"Has he got statistics of numbers of hits his web site has had?

How long was the photo available on the web site?

Does his web site log or record all the hits on his web site and the IP addresses of all those who have viewed the photo.
I suggest that he compiles that data."

By all means do but please do not volunteer it until you are absolutely certain it will be to your advantage.

I say this because an organisation which infringed my copyright tried to claim that hardly anyone would have seen my work and tried to back it up with how long it had been publicly available and website hits, shooting themselves in the foot as I then used these figures to invoice them accurately - at about twice as much as they wished to pay - which they did without me even having to resort to court.

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