“Queer tourists”

[GenuinelyCurious123]

For any LGBT+ people out there, how do you feel about celebrities such as Jameela Jamil or Demi Lovato claiming to be “queer” or non-binary?

Jameela Jamil is in a long-term relationship with a man.

Demi Lovato, as far as I know, is also in a heterosexual relationship and presents in a feminine way. She previously used they/them pronouns because she wasn’t sure which toilet to use - she didn’t feel male or female, you see - but now she feels more “feminine” again, she has gone back to she/her.

Please can someone explain: in what way are these women queer???

Doesn’t it annoy actual gay or trans people when these non-entities try to jump on the bandwagon just to generate publicity for themselves?

[maddy68]

Why would it bother anyone that's gay or otherwise ?

[the winter soldier]

To be honest it saddens me that some people might think I'm a 'tourist' or somehow 'pretending' to be Bi 'for attention' just because I happen to be currently in a relationship with a man. I've heard people say Bi people are 'confused' or it's just a 'phase', since I've known I liked both men and women since I was 7 years old and had relationships I would have to disagree

[Justme56]

I recall a lesbian couple where one started to identify as a trans man. The lesbian left behind struggled with her identity. She was a lesbian but because of the relationship change (and her belief in gender) she felt she would now be classed as cis/het. As a compromise she gave up her own lesbian identity and called herself queer. All quite sad really.

[BiscuitLover3678]

@OldCrone

Is the world really becoming less conformist if everyone who doesn't conform to a stereotype needs to label themselves as non-conformist?

It’s a process. We won’t get there overnight.

[SunnieShine]

@rumred

It's wearing. As an lesbian growing up in the 60s and 70s - so grim I can't describe it-its fucking irritating that people claim labels like clothing items. Fucking pointless but also why do I give any fucks. It's the patriarchy. It's fucked

Agree 100%

[DaisyWaldron]

For me, "queer" is an umbrella term that is useful as an umbrella term to cover people who might fall under more category (trans and bisexual, for instance) or to link together people who have stuff in comon even even if they don't have the same sexuality or gender identity. So I'd describe myself as bisexual if talking about my own sexuality, but I might talk about going to a "queer-friendly pub" (or a group of "queer friends") if I was going for a night out with a mix of lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans friends.

[OldCrone]

@BiscuitLover3678

I don’t know exactly how or why they call themselves that and what it means. We only see the polished look they show to the media which is very feminine. Maybe in their real lives they are completely different.
I think we need to stop worrying about others and be thankful that the world is becoming less conformist full stop.

Is the world really becoming less conformist if everyone who doesn't conform to a stereotype needs to label themselves as non-conformist?

[Adrianneannanne]

@ChagSameachDoreen

"Queer", like "non-binary", is a very useful little word as it allows you to claim oppression without having to do anything.

Yup

[Stabbitystabstab]

Well does that make me queer or bisexual then?
I only have relationships with men, but welcome women into my bed.
Personally I describe myself as straight. Do I need a trendy label? Or am I just me being me?
Why does everyone have to label EVERYTHING to make them feel unique?

[FrancescaContini]

@BootsAndRoots What in the name of God is a “straight queer”? Do some people actually use these labels un- ironically?

I am really looking forward to a time in the future when this tiresome phase of announcing your identity is over. Most people genuinely don’t give a flying damn about who you choose to have sex with.

[FrancescaContini]

@WarriorN

When I've heard how much abuse bisexual people get, surely it's biphobic to call yourself queer rather than bisexual.

Queer doesn't seem to mean anything

It's people wanting to be part of a 'special club.' But they're not.

I agree. I asked this question further upthread but didn’t get an answer. I also asked a poster who said she’s “queer and homosexual” to explain the difference as a genuine request, but she just got stroppy with me and didn’t explain it.

Can anyone who labels themselves as “queer” please please explain what this means to you? I’m genuinely interested because I also grew up in an era when it was used in a derogatory way to refer to anyone who was gay.

[WarriorN]

Excellent post @PomeloPudding re disability.

Utterly irks me that disability is lumped in with other "diversities" as if basically means it gets forgotten about. And as you say, people with learning disabilities have an entirely different set of needs to those with physical.

I worked on a project around improving inclusion for disability in a certain field and it was v clear that there were mis matches between different peoples' experiences. 'Authentically disabled' voices of those who were very intelligent and had academic jobs still couldn't really understand where those of us who weren't disabled but advocated for and worked with young people with autism, speech and language and learning differences were coming from.

[WarriorN]

When I've heard how much abuse bisexual people get, surely it's biphobic to call yourself queer rather than bisexual.

Queer doesn't seem to mean anything

It's people wanting to be part of a 'special club.' But they're not.

[waterbabys]

To be fair Demi Lovato has been in relationships with women in the past, that would make Lovato bisexual and able to claim 'queer' I believe.

However, Jamil has never been in a relationship with a woman nor has ever spoke of wanting to be in one, until a year or two ago when she was in danger of being 'cancelled' for being a heterosexual judge on a ballroom show ... make of that what you will.

[BootsAndRoots]

It definitely seems to open doors in the media and arts world though.

Plus social media loves to play oppression olympics. I've seen quite a lot of people describe themselves as "non-binary" and all of a sudden they're invited to LGBT+ events, get their work promoted, etc.

But yes, in the "normal" world it is likely to hold you back, but if you're in the public eye it seems to be quite beneficial.

[margegunderson]

I was very puzzled to see LOJ using "queer men" throughout something he wrote on monkey pox recently - gay was used very sparingly. I assumed fashions had changed again but it appears not from this thread.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

I think it's reasonable to discuss these wider societal trends, and celebrities who share every detail of their lives on Instagram and every banal thought that pops into their head on Twitter are fair game for comment, really, as they always have been about everything.

[BootsAndRoots]

These people are irritating, there is the rise of the Straight Queer now, as everyone wants a label and to attach themselves to the LGBT+.

As Andrew Doyle has pointed out, many consider themselves "queer" because they are like 1950's heterosexuals (believing in a romantic attraction before sex is now considered "queer").

There is a great social currency in being from a minority, so for instance a straight white man may find himself losing out to positive discrimination, calling himself "queer" will mean that he can maintain his authority and access to high levels of power in his profession.

[ForTheLoveOfSleep]

Off topic but Demi Lovato uses she/her pronouns
www.glamour.com/story/why-demi-lovato-has-changed-her-pronouns

[BiscuitLover3678]

@Elsiebear90

But how are Jamila Jamil and Demi Levato “non-binary”? They have always presented in a very stereotypically feminine way. People can just declare themselves “non-binary” which in reality means nothing, say they’re oppressed and start pontificated about issues which really don’t affect them and that’s the issue.

That’s not to say people who don’t fit into gender stereotypes (e.g. men who wear dresses and makeup etc) don’t face discrimination and issues, but I’m failing to see how Demi Levato and Jamila Jamil face any issues related to being LGBT+ when they are “gender conforming” and have exclusively (public) heterosexual relationships.

I don’t know exactly how or why they call themselves that and what it means. We only see the polished look they show to the media which is very feminine. Maybe in their real lives they are completely different.
I think we need to stop worrying about others and be thankful that the world is becoming less conformist full stop.

[Cat3i]

Calling people you’ve never met and almost certainly never will “queer tourists” and speculating about their sexual identity, activity and intimate relationships is sneering and small-minded – and all too common on Mumsnet.

[Elsiebear90]

@Hearach15

"Doesn’t it annoy actual gay or trans people when these non-entities try to jump on the bandwagon just to generate publicity for themselves?"

No, non-binary people are very much part of the LGBTQ community.

But how are Jamila Jamil and Demi Levato “non-binary”? They have always presented in a very stereotypically feminine way. People can just declare themselves “non-binary” which in reality means nothing, say they’re oppressed and start pontificated about issues which really don’t affect them and that’s the issue.

That’s not to say people who don’t fit into gender stereotypes (e.g. men who wear dresses and makeup etc) don’t face discrimination and issues, but I’m failing to see how Demi Levato and Jamila Jamil face any issues related to being LGBT+ when they are “gender conforming” and have exclusively (public) heterosexual relationships.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Of course they have the right to use it. And people have the right to comment on it if it seems off.