World Triathlon will still allow transgender women in the female category

[MrsJamin]

World Triathlon has voted to allow "transgender women" to keep competing in the female category. Trans-identified males will have to lower their testosterone levels for two years rather than one, as is the case now. They must also now wait for at least four years after transitioning if they have previously competed as a male in any sporting competition rather than one. Full story in TheGuardian

Not good enough, World Triathlon! Read the room!😡

[NotBadConsidering]

And “continuously below 2.5”. How the hell are they going to verify that? A problem conveniently not mentioned. Require weekly blood test results? Because everyone knows an athlete can drop it just the week before a test and resume training when it’s back up again.

[BellaAmorosa]

@NotBadConsidering

And “continuously below 2.5”. How the hell are they going to verify that? A problem conveniently not mentioned. Require weekly blood test results? Because everyone knows an athlete can drop it just the week before a test and resume training when it’s back up again.

True.

[puffyisgood]

@Helleofabore

Oh... and Blair Hamilton is asking for people between 18 - 35 in Brighton to sign up for a 'gender' sport study too.

Jesus. Blair Hamilton, the 6 foot something trans goalkeeper. Who presumably doesn't believe her height conveys any advantage at all, despite obvious evidence to the contrary (see below). Maybe she'll try something exotic, like, say, arguing that she gets much worse period pains than female athletes?

goalkeepersanonymous.com/does-height-matter-goalkeepers-in-pl/

[Dreikanter]

@BellaAmorosa

On the other hand, if you've never competed in triathlon before, you effectively evade that requirement.

It will depend how they interpret the “at least 48 months must have elapsed since the Transgender athlete has competed as a male in any sporting competition”.

At grassroots level? Elite level? How diligently will they check?

They will still have to evidence 24 months of suppressed T before being allowed to compete even if they have not competed as a male in any sporting event before.

[puffyisgood]

the 48 months thing is slightly problematic.

really, anyone who's a current male competitor and intends to transition ought to be able to serve notice of their intention and then continue to play out the next 48 months as a man. they shouldn't have to give up all competitive sport. that's what the trans lobby always accuses fairness rules of doing but it generally hasn't been true until now.

[Dreikanter]

@puffyisgood

the 48 months thing is slightly problematic.

really, anyone who's a current male competitor and intends to transition ought to be able to serve notice of their intention and then continue to play out the next 48 months as a man. they shouldn't have to give up all competitive sport. that's what the trans lobby always accuses fairness rules of doing but it generally hasn't been true until now.

I think the 48 month rule is there to make it difficult for TW to switch to the female category within triathlon or to jump in from another sporting discipline.

It’s effectively a 4 year ban on competition, possibly during the prime years of an athlete’s career.

World Triathlon can claim that it’s trans inclusive, but it’s actually made it difficult in practice.

I wonder if there is a TW about to emerge at elite level and so this is effectively a policy to hold them off for now.

(Still an awful policy as it doesn’t address the effects of male puberty).

[MaudeYoung]

Why did World Triathlon include an IOC "Human Rights Expert"? There is no human right to participate in sport. I know the IOC likes to say that "sport is a human right" but the IOC is not a law making body.

Nowhere in Human Rights law is it written that participating in sport is a "right".

Read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Read the European Convention on Human Rights

Read the UK Human Rights Act 1998

[MaudeYoung]

My view is that many sports organisations view this as a question of financial resources. Women participating means resources like facilities, public funding, sponsorship etc have to be shared with men. Men resent this and want all that funding for themselves. "Gender identity" ideology is the very convenient means by which they can eventually exclude women from sport and keep those resources.

[BellaAmorosa]

@Dreikanter Yes, you're right - I missed "in any sporting competition”.

[Dreikanter]

Although it’s interesting that it brings up a position where GB TW triathletes can’t compete domestically but could potentially compete internationally.

And since FINA’s new trans policy acknowledges the proven advantages of male puberty in swimming, it’s strange that World Triathlon have ignored it given that swimming comprises an element of the sport.

Wonder if World Athletics will come up with a new policy soon, given Coe’s recent comments?

[BigWoollyJumpers]

it's a shame, because I love the mixed relay events. No point continuing with those then, if they all end up being "men" er "women", er.....

[BigWoollyJumpers]

On a slightly different note, but still within the realms of what we are speaking of. I was watching Imali, the Kenyan runner, with DSD yesterday at the games. There is no doubt that she benefited from high levels of testosterone during her life, and now needs to take medication to subdue them. And I feel sorry for her, as her condition is not chosen, it is just how she is. But she had a ban for a few years, in order to get her testosterone under control, but really, and quite obviously, she is bigger and stronger, than her opponents, she is built like a man, runs like a man, and therefore imho has an unfair advantage.

[caringcarer]

2 categories needed. 1 for those born with a penis and 2 for those born without a penis. They can wear as much makeup and female clothing as they like, but it does not make them female. I don't care if a person on checkout at supermarket wants to dress like a female, no problem at all, however I have massive issues if that person enters female sports.

[Dreikanter]

@BigWoollyJumpers

On a slightly different note, but still within the realms of what we are speaking of. I was watching Imali, the Kenyan runner, with DSD yesterday at the games. There is no doubt that she benefited from high levels of testosterone during her life, and now needs to take medication to subdue them. And I feel sorry for her, as her condition is not chosen, it is just how she is. But she had a ban for a few years, in order to get her testosterone under control, but really, and quite obviously, she is bigger and stronger, than her opponents, she is built like a man, runs like a man, and therefore imho has an unfair advantage.

Imali is competing in the 100m and 200m - there is no requirement to lower T at those distances (and Imali has previously said that they wouldn’t do that anyway).

[CatSpeakForDummies]

Although presented as a compromise, I actually think a blanket ban would be kinder to TW athletes. The 2.5 level is bad for their health, and constantly moving the goal posts means they can't fully grasp the consequences of transition. It feeds into the unhealthy idea that "if only they do x, then they are a woman... now do y..."

The majority of people do better dealing with an uncomfortable truth and honesty than this false hope, we've seen this in medicine for years. This changeable stance gives false hope and it's possible TW would otherwise delay transition if they'd known. Telling TW that they will be women in every way is setting them up for disappointment and preventing them making informed decisions.

[SweetSenorita]

Oh, FFS. Where on earth did all this shit come from?

Were you born male? I'll help you out here. Did the midwife/doctor say to your mother: Congratulations Mrs/Ms/Miss/Dr Smith; it's a boy". Yes? Then fuck off: you do not belong in women's sport!!! 🤬

[Namerchangerextraordinaire]

They should not be allowed to pretend their unisex category is a womens category if they are letting men into it.

World triathlon no longer has a womens category as far as I'm concerned.

Hopefully, real female athletes will boycott it & head for the sports that actually support them.
It's the only way women will retain their own sports instead of becoming validation tools for men who want medals & recognition in their sport, but aren't good enough to gain that fairly against their own sex.

[BigWoollyJumpers]

@Dreikanter

Imali is competing in the 100m and 200m - there is no requirement to lower T at those distances (and Imali has previously said that they wouldn’t do that anyway).

I didn't realise the extra complexity. What's the thinking behind that exemption though?? Could the same be used to argue for trans women in short distances??

[BellaAmorosa]

@CatSpeakForDummies

Although presented as a compromise, I actually think a blanket ban would be kinder to TW athletes. The 2.5 level is bad for their health, and constantly moving the goal posts means they can't fully grasp the consequences of transition. It feeds into the unhealthy idea that "if only they do x, then they are a woman... now do y..."

The majority of people do better dealing with an uncomfortable truth and honesty than this false hope, we've seen this in medicine for years. This changeable stance gives false hope and it's possible TW would otherwise delay transition if they'd known. Telling TW that they will be women in every way is setting them up for disappointment and preventing them making informed decisions.

So true. Nobody is well served by this cowardly, nonsensical policy.

[BellaAmorosa]

@BigWoollyJumpers

I didn't realise the extra complexity. What's the thinking behind that exemption though?? Could the same be used to argue for trans women in short distances??

There is no difference in principle, male advantage is exactly the same, it's just that the ban on 400m, 800m and 1500m participation was established in the CAS (Court of Arbitration in Sport?). I'm hazy on the details, but World Athletics were required to produce evidence and those were the races they produced it for but of course the evidence applies across the board.

[Cailleach1]

@CatherinaJTV

Good decision - still a very long wait time of 4 years, but that may be less relevant in triathlon than other sports.

Also of course, T levels are not that informative without knowing the T sensitivity of the individual athlete, but at least it's not a "trans-panic" blanket ban. A good step.

I'm sure it is great if you are looking at it only from the lads point of view. However, you wouldn't be a lad with much integrity if you competed against women like this. Quite the opposite in my opinion. It would always have been know as cheating before; not the new attempted rebrand of 'inclusive'. Yanks use the word cookies for biscuits. Probably from the Dutch 'koekjes'. They are still the same thing, though.

Not so great for women or what was women's sports. These fine specimens of activism/ideology over fairness seem determined to make them in essence mixed sex now, and the chaps are the equivalent of motorbikes in a bicycle race. No alchemy has taken place. Women are being placed at a disadvantage in their own sports.

[Musomama1]

For me this is not about testosterone and the science. It's as simple as a TIM inclusion results in a female exclusion and this female cannot identify into another category. It's 'life is unfair' logic.

I mean, that's two arguments right there - female exclusion and male advantage. How many more arguments are needed?

[Dreikanter]

@BellaAmorosa

There is no difference in principle, male advantage is exactly the same, it's just that the ban on 400m, 800m and 1500m participation was established in the CAS (Court of Arbitration in Sport?). I'm hazy on the details, but World Athletics were required to produce evidence and those were the races they produced it for but of course the evidence applies across the board.

Yes - there was evidence at the time for male advantage at 400m to a mile distances, but not at other distances.

Ridiculous, really, advantage doesn’t magically disappear just because you’re running 200m rather than 400m.

[AlecTrevelyan006]

in essence - World Athletics has decided that each event is unique. There was clear evidence of advantage in 800m/1500m so DSD were banned from those events. Some athletes moved up distances and some moved down. I predict that as the genetic advantage gets proven at each distance the bans will get expanded - but not before many females lose out on medals, money and everything else associated with success.