How do you cope with the anger when dealing with issues and idiots?

[BigButtons]

I have recently become more actively involved in reading threads and articles and having active discussions on women’s issues and the whole GC issue.
I still don’t understand a lot of the terminology and am confused by many of the laws and arguments on here and elsewhere.
I find it very hard to put my thoughts into words as I just feel so angry about the whole thing; the erosion of women, appropriation, trans rights, all of it.
I really want to be become better informed, I want to be able to hold my own in discussions . It all makes me so angry though that I find I just get emotional rather than pouring measures arguments forward.
How do you deal with that?
Is anger a part of fighting this fight?

[AnyOldPrion]

The Staniland question is a good one to use:

I find rational questions regarding what the other person is saying are useful, as outlined by RoyalCorgi above.

It’s very common that the other person will be evasive and make strenuous attempts to avoid answering. My preferred technique is to point out every attempt at prevarication and repeat the question.

You might commonly find:

1. Your words are being twisted to suggest you said something you didn’t:
   
   TA: “How are you going to police it? Are you going to check everyone’s genitalia? You GCs are all obsessed with genitalia.”
   
   Me: I didn’t mention genitalia, you did. You appear to be prevaricating. Can you answer the question please?
   
   
2. You are called names or subjected to an ad hominem attack.
   
   TA: Typical bigoted question T**F.
   
   Me: Are you unable to give a response? Ad hominem attacks and name-calling are generally a sign that someone has no coherent argument. I’ll ask again… repeat the question.
   
   
3. They might demand evidence. With experience you can build up a knowledge of legal cases, medical skepticism from reliable sources and evidence provided by professionals in response to inquiries etc.
   
   But again, if they demand evidence in an attempt to avoid responding to the question, don’t forget to come back to it, regardless of whether you provide evidence or not.
   
   Take your time when responding, assuming you’re online. Sometimes I can’t work out immediately how to respond, especially if my words have been twisted, but given a bit of time, the specific line of gaslighting tends to become clear. There’s usually something that you realise you didn’t say, which wasn’t even implied in what you said. I always point out when they’ve implied I said something I didn’t.
   
   I don’t know how I’d fare in a live conversation, but having a very clear mind about the subject, perfected over serial online discussions, can’t do any harm.
   
   I continue this technique for as long as they continue to avoid the question and remain relatively civil. It starts to be very obvious after a fairly short exchange that they actually can’t answer the question because they know the answer is untrue or damaging.
   
   If I find myself getting angry, I either take a break or remove myself from the conversation. When I don’t, I put myself at risk of banning (Twitter) or strikes (Mumsnet). I’ve had both, generally because I allowed my rage to overcome my better judgement.

[AnyOldPrion]

the answer would have been:
that anyone who chooses to identify as female is female regardless their biological sex therefore any male who says they are female has the right to women's spaces.
How do you deal with that kind of response?

Can you explain in what way a man is female, just because he claims to be so?

Rinse and repeat…

[BigButtons]

he would just say that they had a right and that I had no right to say that they were not female if that's how they identified.
I find it astonishing that a man with a wife and a young granddaughter would think of women in this way.

[AnyOldPrion]

Forgot to say, never ever get dragged into using their language and definitions. Use plain English that doesn’t in any way imply that men are women. It clears the mind wonderfully…. (which is exactly why they have worked so hard to make speaking the truth offensive).

[BigButtons]

[quote andyoldlabour]OP, with regard to your OH, could you give examples of sports, where there are now transwomen competing in and winning in the women's category. Perhaps explain to him, that these people very often have no surgery whatsoever.
Here are a few examples.

www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1108399/anna-vanbellinghen-hubbard

interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/03/a-level-playing-field/

www.thecricketblog.com/maxine-blythin-and-the-curious-case-of-womens-cricket/

www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/rachel-mckinnon-is-a-cheat-and-a-bully/[/quote]
I haver tried this but he doesn't believe me because he thinks that would be too outrageous! I agree with him. Thank you for the links. I will show them to him.

[BigButtons]

@AnyOldPrion thank you that is so useful. I am taking notes now to help all these suggestions sink in and also to have a reference to turn to when I am involved in a 'discussion'.

[AnyOldPrion]

So in your opinion, a man has the right to say he’s a woman, and women are not allowed to question it? I see you haven’t answered my question. Are you trying to avoid doing so?

Can you explain in what way a man is female, just because he claims to be so?

Someone up thread said they are now generally icy cool in their rage. You need to have absolute faith in the knowledge that you are right, and he’s speaking nonsense, which he is.

Good luck. It does get easier with practice.

[Ostara212]

Does anyone see refusal to engage as a good idea?

I am thinking to keep on writing to those in power but not discuss it.

It is especially weird with the "I saw on tiktok" people.

[AnyOldPrion]

@BigButtons

he would just say that they had a right and that I had no right to say that they were not female if that's how they identified.
I find it astonishing that a man with a wife and a young granddaughter would think of women in this way.

Sorry, that was in response to this post.

[Thelnebriati]

I don't deal with it. Its devastating when you realise how few people support your human rights.

There are trademarked foods that have more legal recognition than 5!% of the human race.

[BigButtons]

Since my brain has atrophied over these last few years I am going to use this as a way to fire it back up again: making myself familiar with names, cases, laws etc so at least I will have some evidence to back up my opinions.

My 19 year old told me yesterday that on a birth control leaflet she has recently been given it referred to women as ‘ birth givers’.
I was horrified and so was she.

[cervixuser]

slightly off topic - does anyone know if there is a GC group in Shropshire?

[JuneJustRains]

on a birth control leaflet she has recently been given it referred to women as ‘ birth givers’.

They clearly don’t have much confidence in their own product then.

[NonnyMouse1337]

It's important to also pick and choose your battles. You are never going to convince a trans activist to change their mind, especially online where it's a public space and human nature means they won't want to publicly admit they might be wrong lest their own friends turn on them. Remember the real audience though - those lurking and reading but not commenting.
I add links and comments on Facebook - on news articles posted by the BBC, Guardian, Times, LBC etc etc. Lots of people reading and I avoid getting derailed and dragged into word play. Never ever use the words and phrases of the trans activists - stick to simple, clear language like males who identify as women. It's more long-winded but the average person immediately gets what you're saying and easily understands the problems.

[DodoPatrol]

I spent a while avoiding one set of in-laws until my anger had cooled over this, to be honest. They are too deeply invested now, after our young relative has had surgery that they funded.

I stick to ensuring that my own children know that if ‘Tom’ needs emergency medical treatment or whatever on their watch, they should be clear to medics that he has a female body, as that information could be life saving.

[Lonel]

Avoid getting involved in pointless spats on Twitter - you often end up arguing with American teenage boys who have absolutely no idea what the debate is actually about but can spin it out for hours. Instead talk to people in real life about the issues. So many women still haven't realised what is happening.

[CardinalLolzy]

@JuneJustRains

on a birth control leaflet she has recently been given it referred to women as ‘ birth givers’.

They clearly don’t have much confidence in their own product then.

Brilliant

[jennytogether]

Are you angry about something that has actually happened, or the idea that something bad might happen? Self ID has been happening in terms of toilets and changing rooms for years… (the current amendments to the Gender Act don’t change this) why do you feel so angry about it now? I’m putting myself out here for lots of argument I suspect, and I used to feel aligned with GC because it’s hard to dispute that someone born male can switch to totally female biology. But then I started to see trans women as women and my sisters who are trapped inside the wrong body (exactly like me but with years of struggle), and I want to support and help them as much as any woman. I think that excluding these women (trapped) from our fold will have greater damaging consequences than the impacts of self ID. It’s been happening for so long that I don’t see the real life evidence that it is worth shutting out trans women for.

It all reminds me of the old debate around whether gay people should be allowed to use same sex facilities. And I hope we’ve all moved on from thinking that because someone is gay they’re out to violently assault.

[CardinalLolzy]

It all reminds me of the old debate around whether gay people should be allowed to use same sex facilities. And I hope we’ve all moved on from thinking that because someone is gay they’re out to violently assault.

What are same-sex facilities? I have no idea what this "old debate" is/was!?

Luckily I've literally never thought that gay somehow equates to violence, so you can exclude me from that "we" you're throwing around there!

[CardinalLolzy]

My anger, personally, is at the two women murdered a week by current or partners and the fact that this hasn't improved in years and hardly anyone seems to give a shit, and would rather get women's groups cancelled instead of tackling a problem that applies to a specific group of people who aren't even allowed to name themselves.

[jennytogether]

@CardinalLolzy I’m angry about this too. My view is that I think that so much feminist debate being centred around self ID at the moment distracts from the issue of violence largely being male on female and unrelated to self ID issues. I know that most people here will not agree with me - I didn’t know whether to post here for that reason. Putting myself out here to just say I don’t think that all different views to OP my opposing view makes me an idiot.

[CardinalLolzy]

My view is that I think that so much feminist debate being centred around self ID at the moment distracts from the issue of violence largely being male on female and unrelated to self ID issues.

How can you use the term 'male on female' but remain unconcerned about what this means - in general terms and in the actual law - though?

I do get you and I think it's important to keep up any momentum on the murdering issue (see recent campaign by the Observer - much welcomed). But as soon as you start talking about this I guarantee it'll get derailed by someone trying to redefine the sexes or say 'but women do it too'. That's where ignoring and pushing through comes into it, I suppose...

[jennytogether]

@CardinalLolzy so maybe this is what I’m not understanding. What are the proposed changes in the law that will increase the risk to women? (Where self-ID to use toilets and changing rooms etc is already legal and has been for a long time)

[jennytogether]

@CardinalLolzy oh and regarding your earlier comment, I understand that when being gay was less accepted in society one of the points of resistance was that gay men shouldn’t be able to use male changing , and gay women shouldn’t be able to use female changing rooms because of the perceived threat. My use of the word “we” was meant to refer to society as a whole, where gay men in particular were often aligned with paedophilia, totally inappropriately.

[Lonel]

I understand that when being gay was less accepted in society one of the points of resistance was that gay men shouldn’t be able to use male changing , and gay women shouldn’t be able to use female changing rooms because of the perceived threat.
That has never been the case. Where did you get that from?