A podcast to explain?

[hippityhippityhop]

I'm very keen to learn more about the trans debate but I struggle to read lots of information with 2 DC running around. Can anyone recommend a podcast or radio show ( basically something I can listen to!) which explains things very simply to a tired yet curious mama? Thank you

[PotholeHellhole]

But ya. There's no more actual debate here than there was when we were asking if gay marriage should be legal.


But... but... there was a huge debate. I was part of it! We made actual points about pension contributions, inheritance tax, next of kin issues, registering deaths, eligibility to adopt, and many more, and the distinction between marriage as a religious institution and as a civic institution.

Are you too young to remember?

[PotholeHellhole]

I recall that it was agreed that it was very important to respect the rights of religious officials from religions that disapprove of homosexuality not to perform same-sex marriages.

Compare and contrast with how this movement tramples all over Muslim women who say they want single-sex toilets. They're told they must see transwomen as women or they're bigots.

It's like telling a Muslim or a Catholic cleric that they must perform a same-sex marriage ceremony.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4175451-muslim-women-and-trans-policies-in-the-workplace

[PotholeHellhole]

This is an extract from a speech a couple of years back by an author called Onjali Rauf who has been called a transphobe for it recently.

As I look around in today’s world, I see more and more bewildered women and girls feeling confused, alienated and afraid.

Women like myself and my Sikh or Hindu or Jewish friends who need single-space places to safely unveil, wash up and reconfigure ourselves; or women who are breastfeeding and lactating and needing a space to let it all hang out; or women going through the menopause or chemotherapy who need safe spaces to just be looked after, or young girls on their first ever periods or sprouting breasts who need space for support and reassurance.

Or every woman ever, who needs a safe space like this to come and meet and talk about our fears and battles, and hopefully create better policies and movements for our future women.

Even the smallest annihilation of the basic right to be a woman in the presence of other women can have dire impacts on our health and state of mind.

A case in point: three weeks ago, I took a dear friend to lunch.

All was going well, we were having a beautiful time, and halfway through the meal, she left to go to the restaurant bathroom.

The woman that came back, was not the same one who left the luncheon table: for instead of the carefree, happy being I knew, came back a pale, quiet and slightly shaken version.

It transpired the restaurant had a gender ‘neutral’ bathroom, and as she had made her way down, a very innocent man had walked out of the toilets, banging into her.

Nothing of any significance to anyone watching – not until I tell you that this friend of two decades, had been raped in her university dorm room at the age of twenty, and feared all contact with men – no matter how nice, kind, friendly, non-threatening or ‘effeminate’ they might seem.

[Sophoclesthefox]

hibari, I highly recommend you have a listen to the Stella O’Malley and Sasha Ayad podcast I recommended upthread. Firstly because I think it’s healthy to read and listen to things you think you disagree with, so that you can develop critical thinking skills, and secondly because they discuss gender identity, social and cultural issues, how to treat the whole person sensitively and supportively, how we come to think of ourselves the way we do, what it means to grow up...They cover so much more than “just” trans issues.

Also, maybe you don’t remember this, but there was a massive amount of debate around gay marriage. Because we didn’t have it, then there was a lot of campaigning, and many groups of people resisted it, but then enlightenment values and humanity won the day, and now we do have it. I supported the drive to have it, then and now for places that don’t, but hang onto your hat, because I know quite a few gay people who oppose it. They think it’s heteronormative, and disapprove of what they see as “aping” the hets. They think it’s selling out. So your simplistic comparison doesn’t really work, I’m afraid.

[NecessaryScene1]

it was agreed that it was very important to respect the rights of religious officials from religions that disapprove of homosexuality

Note though that none of them were women.

So it was a proper man vs man debate (with a few bonus lesbians cheerleading, but none of them were in charge of anything important).

Now it's largely men vs women. And women can't really debate - they just get hysterical or start "using past trauma", as Hibari puts it so gracefully.

And when did men ever get anywhere by trying negotiating reasonably with the primitive people occupying the land they wanted to colonise?

(A few years ago I would have called this a daft caricature of the attitude towards women, but having witnessed the dynamic of this non-debate, compared to my memory of the gay rights struggle, I cannot come up with any other plausible explanation for the difference.)

[BlackWaveComing]

Gender: A Wider Lens

[Scout2016]

Graham Linnehan's chat with Jane Clare Jones maybe?

[Gurufloof]

A video about trans in sport, I guess you have to watch it too but suppose you could just listen?

rtd.rt.com/films/trans-sport-transgenders-in-womens-sport/

[PotholeHellhole]

NecessaryScene1

Honestly, I'm feeling the same way. Do you remember the cake case, where it was ruled the Christian bakers did not have to write things they didn't want to (like explicit support of gay marriage being legal) on a cake? Because it was compelled speech? And that the bakers' suggested compromise of giving/selling writing icing with the cake to the purchasers so the purchasers could put it on themselves was held to have been a great one?

Contrast and compare with what happened to Maya Forstater and other women since.

[Littlefiendsusan]

Magdalene Burns on You Tube.

[RedDeerRunning]

For a lovely deep unpacking try Jane Clare Jones chatting to a philosopher (can't remember his name) in a sunny garden. Really fab listening

[ArabellaScott]

I don't know about podcasts, OP, but 'A Woman's Place' has a great series of talks from some fab women and transwomen.

www.youtube.com/channel/UCzFqsUqDzyXEQMJVy42NwUw/videos

[PotholeHellhole]

Oh, awesome! I've found that speech from Onjali Rauf there, Arabella!

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

There is no "trans debate." It's not a debate.

Hibari, a few zealots saying "no debate" doesn't actually mean there is nothing to debate. There is a clear conflict here with women's rights and safeguarding practices around children. We will have the debate, with or without you. Hope that helps.

[SorryPleaseTryAgain]

@Sophoclesthefox

Gender: a wider lens with Stella O’Malley and Sasha Ayad is great if you like getting into the psychology.

Agree, I also like this podcast. I like that they speak respectfully and empathically about people's experiences of gender dysphoria and analyse the psychology behind the phenomenon.

[NecessaryScene1]

@RedDeerRunning

For a lovely deep unpacking try Jane Clare Jones chatting to a philosopher (can't remember his name) in a sunny garden. Really fab listening

I thought it was only me who loved those videos.

Here's the first (garden) discussion (3 hours):

Here's the second (non-garden) discussion (3.5 hours):

[Merename]

You’ve had so many suggestions you’re probably overwhelmed!! But I liked this one with Stephanie Davies-Arai from Transgender Trend, because of the clear focus on children and young people. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/filia.org.uk/latest-news/2020/11/9/stephanie-davies-arai-transgender-trend-questioning-gender-identity-teaching-in-our-culture-classroom-and-clinic%3fformat=amp

[LibertyMole]

This is such a helpful thread. Thanks OP and everyone who posted recommendations.

[hippityhippityhop]

Thanks so much everyone! Really appreciate the suggestions. Now I just need to decide where to start 🤔

[Awning10]

Here's a new one from Benjamin Boyce and Graham Linehan:

[GonadTheGaul]

I also recommend the 'Gender, a Wider Lens' podcast with Stella O'Malley and Sasha Ayad.

Filia have some good podcasts on feminism including issues beyond the UK filia.org.uk/latest-news?category=Podcast

There are some good podcast episodes at Savage Minds savageminds.substack.com/archive?sort=new The ones with Beth Stelzer, Linda Blade, James Caspian, Selina Todd, Alice Sullivan, Jennifer Wagner-Assali, Emma Hilton, Heather Brunskell-Evans and Stephanie Davies-Arai are good. I haven't listened to all of them yet so there will be more that are worth checking out.

For a comprehensive review of the science behind why transwomen shouldn't be competing in sport against women, listen to this play.acast.com/s/realscienceofsport/whyrugbyscontroversialnewtransgenderguidelinesmakesenseforallsportingcodes

[LangClegsInSpace]

I thought it was only me who loved those videos

I love them too

Well - I've only seen the first one, I watched it again recently with DH. On a dismal, gloomy, saturday afternoon in February, we bounced it to the big telly and watched the whole thing with a few ales. Almost as good as a long, sunny afternoon in a pub garden putting the world to rights.

I didn't know there was a second one! Thank you!

[LangClegsInSpace]

Object UK

www.youtube.com/channel/UC6UT4yXCKDS7R1Gt1QD24eA/videos

WLRN

www.youtube.com/channel/UCP213EJAmGphc7BBJuyi1lA/videos

Women's Human Rights Campaign

www.youtube.com/channel/UCWECmp5Tk3epYSkjs0qAKKQ/videos

For Women Scotland

www.youtube.com/channel/UCE91hRSUC7SfIH4EnJaaulA/videos

[ChattyLion]

Fantastic thread thank you

[InsideNumberNine]

Thanks all for the Stella O'Malley/Sasha Ayad recommendation. Just listened to the Buck Angel and ROGD ones - very interesting, especially the point about a potential link between GD and PCOS.