Really irresponsible Guardian article today

[Vermeil]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/31/years-denial-finally-accepted-trans-woman

This really irresponsible article has appeared in today’s Guardian. Why irresponsible? This-

‘ The waiting list for the NHS’s backlogged gender identity clinics frequently exceeds three years, leaving trans people with no choice but to funnel money into private medical services, so that we can finally start living as ourselves.

This summer I did exactly that. The scheduled hour-long consultation with a psychologist was over in 15 minutes. “I have what I need,” she said. “You know who you are.” Within 24 hours I received written confirmation that I met the criteria for gender dysphoria. A prescription for oestrogen and progesterone arrived at my door two days later.’

So, an article in a mainstream UK newspaper is basically promoting the idea that after just 15mins speaking to someone online who claims to be a psychologist, you can be given prescription CSH within 24hrs.
WTAF?

[Defaultname]

A thought experiment is no such thing.
An experiment implies testing a hypothesis, There must be an element of refutability.
All this person was being asked was to "Imaging how nice it would be if wishes were horses". But they aren't.

[Labobo]

If I could push a button and the whole world could see me as size 8 and 5'8 tall, I would push it. Doesn't mean I should have the fat carved off my body and metal implants in my limbs and spine. That is truly irresponsible of the therapist. I hope the person who waltzed off with the hormones after only 15 mins gets better support elsewhere before doing anything drastic or irreversible.

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

’Improbable' is a relative term. If you believe that pixies and leprachuans are real, or that men can transform into women...

Of course! All makes sense

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

Everyone knows trans people exist. But the online trans community seems quite invested in the idea that gender critical feminists are predominantly socks, bots, trolls - not real people with real opinions. They deny our existence all the bloody time!

Good point, thanks TyroTerf. Classic DARVO.

[Defaultname]

Or as Disraeli might have put it:

There are lies, damned lies, and transstatistics.

[Defaultname]

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

The Guardian had previously claimed that Transwoman life expectancy was 35 in South America

And the correction just called this an insufficiently confirmed statistic! Do journalists switch off their brains when they write this stuff?

It was originally given as the average age of a transgender murder victim (globally, the average ageof any murder victim is under 30) and then misunderstood and spread across the internet. But why would any newspaper publish something so improbable without checking?

'Improbable' is a relative term.
If you believe that pixies and leprachuans are real, or that men can transform into women...

[TyroTerf]

Also I've just spotted the reversal and projection wossname in the 'denying our existence' line.

Everyone knows trans people exist. But the online trans community seems quite invested in the idea that gender critical feminists are predominantly socks, bots, trolls - not real people with real opinions.

They deny our existence all the bloody time!

[TyroTerf]

So maybe that's at the heart of it, not how you feel inside but how your are perceived in the world?

Checks out with my experience. I hate people looking at me and seeing 'woman' - because the majority of the world hasn't bothered to question the sexist shite they've been submersed in all their lives, so when they look and see 'woman' a lot of people are seeing a selection of fuckable holes, a domestic appliance, a person who will care about makeup and shoes, etc etc.

Obviously in my case this is a result of sustained sexual abuse at a very young age, and I couldn't comment on Sophie's reasons for not wishing to be seen as a man, or whether Sophie has suffered with a lifelong disconnection from Sophie's body or an inability to occupy man-stereotypes with any sense of integrity. But yes: the 'problem' is rooted in an inability to cope with knowing what other people see when they look at you.

Which is sort of understandable, if when other people look at you they primarily see a target for exploitation and abuse.

[CranberriesChoccyAgain]

@NiceGerbil

I never understand this existence thing.

Obviously these people exist.

Does the word exist mean something different to them?

It likely is to do with GC's not parroting TWAW. For many of them it's the be-all, end-all of being transgender. So to not agree with that part of the ideology is, to them, to "deny" their existence.

[Needmoresleep]

I wonder who the consultation was with? Other threads here are about someone working for Gender GP who seems light on the qualifications needed for their role, and who is also prominent in the Green Party,

[Defaultname]

@FanEffinTastic

I really hope this is the validation-fantasy it reads like it is. Because if there's a psychologist who really acted in this way, that's deeply concerning (although not surprising - "psychologist" isn't a protected title, so it would be interesting to know what kind of psychologist this was).

It's not exactly easy to see the difference between this 'thought experiment' and a thoughtless one.

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

The Guardian had previously claimed that Transwoman life expectancy was 35 in South America

And the correction just called this an insufficiently confirmed statistic! Do journalists switch off their brains when they write this stuff?

It was originally given as the average age of a transgender murder victim (globally, the average ageof any murder victim is under 30) and then misunderstood and spread across the internet. But why would any newspaper publish something so improbable without checking?

[ListeningQuietly]

Surreal,
I thought you were going to be writing about this story
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/30/i-felt-like-i-was-born-again-first-non-binary-person-granted-uk-refugee-status
with the massive reverse ferret shown up in the amendment at the bottom

they had previously claimed that Transwoman life expectancy was 35 in South America .....

[stumbledin]

I think it isn't surprising the Guardian would publish this as after all they are effectively a campaigning paper using its platform to validate its position.

And as we know when the trend of affirmative parenting meets affirmative medical support this is the type of queue the violins article you get.

What is so blatant about it is that of course the Guardian would never publish as equally heartfelt article from a detranistioner.

And as this is true of most other MSM is it anyone wonder that so many who just have a passing knowledge of the issue just think it is about making young people feel better - ie validated.

[Abhannmor]

That psychologist is on a good little earner isnt she? Got through an 1 hour session in 15 minutes. ' I have all I need ' she said ' you know who you are'. I just need your bank details more like. Criminal negligence.

[SnuggyBuggy]

The whole "my existence is up for debate" thing just sounds like an ego thing. No, no one is debating whether you exist, we just want our female only spaces.

[FanEffinTastic]

I really hope this is the validation-fantasy it reads like it is. Because if there's a psychologist who really acted in this way, that's deeply concerning (although not surprising - "psychologist" isn't a protected title, so it would be interesting to know what kind of psychologist this was).

[DancelikeEmmaGoldman]

Mummyoflittledragon it was depressing viewing. But instructive I think. It seems that for some men, women just aren’t fully human, which goes some distance to explaining their willingness to disregard woman’s rights.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

God DanceLikeEmma. That third paragraph is depressing!

[Mummyoflittledragon]

@TinselAngel

Oh I think I did an accidental misgender.

I do think it's odd that the article goes out of its way to say how accepting the partner was, even though she left.

Didn’t the partner just accept that this wasn’t for her? This doesn’t necessarily mean accepting someone else’s reality. I read it that she had no desire to be a trans widow. “Sophie” may have chosen to interpret this differently.

As for the question from the gender therapist inviting trans people to imagine a world, where “you can be they can be yourself consequence-free”. Isn’t this where much of the issue lies? It’s basically inviting trans people to put themselves and their wants / desire to be recognised as a different “gender” ahead of the safety of others? Disgraceful.

[SkinnyMinnieee]

It would be interesting to hear from a qualified psychologist because we're only guessing here really.

[DancelikeEmmaGoldman]

The whole thing is silly. If I could push a button and be 25 years younger I would do it in a heartbeat but it’s not biologically possible. And I have been 25 years younger, so I know how it feels. I’m not imagining some fantasy state of being.

I don’t think these men know anything about the real lives that women lead, and in their distress (or perversion), imagine female lives as some carefree state where everyday anxieties and responsibilities disperse in clouds of unicorn sparkles.

I was watching a YouTube video the other day, where a trans “woman” earnestly reassured their audience that transitioning didn’t mean having to give up hobbies and interests; that women are individuals who can also have hobbies and interests (just like men!). Because apparently the very thought of women as actual human beings, with actual individual interests, was so novel, an entire video was necessary to convince men of the idea.

[NiceGerbil]

I never understand this existence thing.

Obviously these people exist.

Does the word exist mean something different to them?

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

I am coming out into a world that sees my existence as a matter of legitimate debate

Nobody is debating this person's existence or their right to exist. The debate that transactivists are trying to stop is about the abolition of women's rights to single-sex spaces and services. The Guardian colludes in the dishonest pretence that women are somehow stopping transpeople existing.

Dishonesty is central to the whole trans ideology.

[FWRLurker]

My husband followed a similar path as the article writer. After a responsible clinician told him he was probably not trans, or that at least it would require more time/therapy, he Rocked on up to an “informed consent” clinic, was asked the button question, got hormones immediately. They talked about fertility but nothing about other possible consequences. The attitude was “well let’s see if it helps!”

Turns out he was depressed/anxious/abusing substances and looking for any solution. Hormones for 2 years didn’t do much for him except a lot of weight gain and during the period expressing a lot of sexist views about why his “feminine” interests and personality meant he was really a woman (he was on trans forums, I’m sure like article writer spending hours defending why he’s always been female etc).

Anyway, I guess we’ll see where we are at in 2 years for this person. Certainly being this public about it is going to make things harder to back away from. But the fact that many people are making this mistake certainly doesn’t make me think it’s a good time to get rid of female-only spaces and provisions.