Reading the Guardian

[littlebitupset]

Always read the Guardian but didn't fully realise what was happening to Suzanne Moore until she left. Am horrified at her treatment.

I'm now conflicted with some of the remaining columnists, who I previously admired but now wonder how they can stay and, in my opinion, look like they support the signature list that went around even if they didn't sign it. (I don't know who did sign it).

Hadley Freeman springs to mind the most.

Where is the solidarity?

[andyoldlabour]

OneEpisode

Thanks for that explanation, you are right there were a lot of IT based people who signed that.

[ScribblingPixie]

Maybe it was just a one-off freebie? Admittedly I haven't properly explored this area of Amazon so sorry if I've got it wrong.

[ScribblingPixie]

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

As for the Spectator on Kindle being free with Prime, I've found a 28 day free trial. I'll have another look.

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08MTS8QB5?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&storeType=periodicals&pageType=FEATUREDOC&pf_rd_p=422dd008-73bb-4436-a5e2-e6f1415ba3dd&pf_rd_r=SDXSK8XBGQGZ67SR50T5&pf_rd_s=center-6&pf_rd_t=47101&ref_=dbs_o_r_shv_s6_422dd008-73bb-4436-a5e2-e6f1415ba3dd_10&pf_rd_i=dbs-desktop-prime-pr-magazines&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[OneEpisode]

Hi @andyoldlabour
There are lots of IT type people on that www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr64n9 list.
I’m sure I read that the trans person that had already resigned was in IT.
Suzanne wrote “ I was discussed at ‘conference', the newspaper morning meeting open to all — it looks like equality, but some people sit on the floor and others get seats — and it was reported that a trans woman employee, who had resigned some weeks earlier, resigned again that morning, because my words had made her feel unsafe.“

A scrum is a group of people doing usually IT development. Agile is a newer project delivery technique, basically delivering in stages. The “master” is the person coordinating the developers.
Somehow “agile scrum master” is an ok job title for any gender/ethnicity.

[RealityNotEssentialism]

@TammyTwoSawnson

Just read the list of signatories. One of them was a friend and the last time I spoke to her was about gender critical feminism. I was under the impression she was gender critical too.
But I've just checked and yup! She's unfollowed/unfriended me on all social media.
Sigh.

Wow. It’s amazing that you can cut a friend out of your life over a difference in opinion rather than debating the issue with them. It really shows how cult-like this movement is. I have friends who feel differently to me about immigration or Brexit. I do sometimes avoid those topics with them but I’d never cut them out of my life. They’ve been there for me in the past and political views are not the foundation of our friendship.

I think the woke movement teaches that the only reason someone is a Tory voter is that they are an inherently bad person. That’s obviously total bullshit but it explains why some people refuse to associate with anyone who doesn’t think the same as them. Their hate is starting to transfer from tories to centrists now, so I reckon I’m in for it soon! It’s their loss. This woman was never much of a friend to begin with.

[TammyTwoSawnson]

Just read the list of signatories. One of them was a friend and the last time I spoke to her was about gender critical feminism. I was under the impression she was gender critical too.
But I've just checked and yup! She's unfollowed/unfriended me on all social media.
Sigh.

[boatyardblues]

I’ve finally got around to reading the list of signatories. What were journalists like Simon Hattenstone thinking? Despicable behaviour. Ugh.

[SophocIestheFox]

One of my loveliest, kindest, smartest friends absolutely adores OJ. She’s in her seventies as well, and not otherwise prone to wokeness. It’s mystifying. We just never talk about him, she knows I think he’s a self satisfied twerp 🤣

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

As for the Spectator on Kindle being free with Prime, I've found a 28 day free trial. I'll have another look.

[Defaultname]

@NewlyGranny

To quote Wilde - or Lady Bracknell - it "...reminds one of the worst excesses off the French Revolution."

And as history shows, revolutions turn and devour their children. Watch and wait.

That speech continues "....Mr.Worthing,...try and...produce, at any rate one parent, of either sex."

"Either sex"! As though there are only two!

Time to pull down the Wilde statues, surely!

[RealityNotEssentialism]

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/transgender-woman-jenny-swift-prison-death

I also remember crap like this. A whole article saying that this person who violently attacked a man with a knife should have been in a women’s prison. I see that Lauren Jeska is in a women’s prison too.

[puffin321]

OJ on Jeremy Vine always makes me switch it off

[ClaireP20]

@Jux

Surely no one listens to Owen Jones? I don't know one person who has anything good to say about him.

So true....although he does keep popping up on Jeremy Vine which makes me instantly turn over on principle. Woman hating arsehole.

[mollscroll]

Yes it was the apologia for would-be murderer Lauren Jeska that first opened my eyes to the ideological capture at the Guardian.

[OneFootintheRave]

@MaMaLa321

speaking as someone who took the paper as a default position for years, then stopped after their coverage of Cologne NYE, move on. Read other papers. There's good stuff out there. My OH reads the Guardian on Saturdays and, when I glance at it, the journalism always seems pretty poor (at least compared to the FT, which do read regularly).
I haven't missed the Guardian at all.

Yes, that coverage surprised me and opened my eyes a bit. Then after that, their bizarre edited coverage of the Lauren Jeska case.

Where can I see the list of signatories does anyone know?

[ScribblingPixie]

@HBGKC It's in Prime Reading to download onto Kindle/free reading app - tons of mags are in there. I haven't done it myself yet.

[TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair]

Surely no one listens to Owen Jones? I don't know one person who has anything good to say about him.

He has a million followers on Twitter. Lots of Corbyn supporters love him.

[HBGKC]

"If you have Amazon Prime you can read The Spectator for free. Various Guardian writers have written articles on there recently."
@ScribblingPixie could you tell me how this works? I've just googled but found nothing helpful.

[ChewtonRoad]

I have been a Guardian and Observer reader for 35+ years, but have become quite disenchanted with it in the last three or four years. It's becoming harder to avoid wokery and painfully self-righteous navel gazing from some writers along with the determined denials of reality and biology, all of which are really fucking tiresome.

If Kath Viner or one of her minions is reading this thread, I'd say give your head a shake sharpish before it's too late, although you're very near that point of no return.

Am definitely keeping my subscription to Private Eye.

[Jintyfer]

@ScribblingPixie

If you have Amazon Prime you can read The Spectator for free. Various Guardian writers have written articles on there recently.

Ooh I did not know that! Thanks @ScribblingPixie 🙏

[HerselfIndoors]

Of course there are limits to free speech, and there are clear laws. I agree that a paper should not publish, for example, a column that incites racial hatred, and the courts would agree.

But GC views are not like that. They are in accordance with material reality, scientific evidence, and the law, so they are not presenting any such problems and don't go beyond what free speech should allow. They also argue on behalf of a group of people with a protected characteristic, being of the female sex. There is nothing wrong with that.

[HerselfIndoors]

As an op-ed writer and a supposed champion of free speech she should be open to the notion of people disagreeing with her.

Oh the irony. She's fine with people disagreeing with her, she has been writing for many years for a paper that published views that disagree with hers. Other papers do this too, it's how columns work: they are personal viewpoints. Disagreement is not the same as pressing for a certain view not to be published. How can someone even understand the basic concept of journalism if they can't see that difference?

I’m afraid to say that among my peer group of other journalists, all of us who work for various national outlets, there is zero support for her.

That can happen when people know that expressing any view in support of what Moore has written could lead to them being bullied and hounded and possibly losing their jobs, and they have to be careful who they admit their true views to.

[Feetoflead]

@andyoldlabour I’m going off topic but just to answer your question from upthread- an agile scrum master works in software development 🙂

[littlebitupset]

@ScribblingPixie

If you have Amazon Prime you can read The Spectator for free. Various Guardian writers have written articles on there recently.

Good to know

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

among my peer group of other journalists, all of us who work for various national outlets, there is zero support for her.

I was about to say that’s odd, because I know quite a few journalists and none have said Great news, the Guardian is putting those pesky feminists back in their cage. But we’re the generation that fought for women’s liberation, so we’re not going to chuck it out like an old fashion magazine.