Another incredibly annoying Guardian article

[xxyzz]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/10/trans-rights-feminist-letter-rebecca-solnit

Apologies if already posted here - couldn't see it.

Apologies also to anyone else as irked by it as me. I just want to hear some other people also express that it is like nails on a blackboard in its utter tone-deaf wrongness throughout.

[Annasgirl]

Well that was a beautiful letter. I wish I had written it. I love an eloquent put down.

[TheWordWomanIsTaken]

@TBHno

That is one of the Guardian's worst articles on this subject, and that's really saying something.

I thought so as well - in fact I couldn't even read it through the rage.
I texted a link to my dtr asking if her friends really actually really believed this shite.

[TorkTorkBam]

She was hanging out with them in a bar where she was taken when very underage. Not even a hint of a suggestion from her that something was not right about them taking her to bars when she was 14 (even though they had no sexual interest in her).

She does not seem to have a grasp of child protection or even what it is to be a responsible adult around children.

[Igmum]

Great response, thanks Dancelike. Bloody annoying article. Trendy Guardian journalists meets some perfectly lovely trans folk in a bar, therefore we don't need women's refuges. WTF?

[FloralBunting]

Goosefoot, you and I do not see eye to eye on a number of things, but this we definitely share

[Goosefoot]

@FloralBunting

Holly Lawford-Smith uses begging the question properly, which simply enhances that letter's many positives. Excellent.

Oh, that's just wonderful.

Improper use of that term is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, though I realise many people now have only heard it used incorrectly. But it's such a useful idea.

[FloralBunting]

Holly Lawford-Smith uses begging the question properly, which simply enhances that letter's many positives. Excellent.

[NotBadConsidering]

@DocOfTheBay

I can’t find / see the comments.
Do I have to subscribe?

I am really not willing to subscribe for drivel like this.

The actual article doesn’t allow comments, it’s comments on the Facebook post about it that people are seeing.

[DancelikeEmmaGoldman]

Holly Lawford-Smith responds to Rebecca Solnit.

letter.wiki/conversation/897#letter_2796

[ToriaPumpkin]

A friend shared this to Facebook today and I lost my cool. I've tempered my replies to her but it's hard. Apparently so few transwomen would seek to harm or make uncomfortable women in toilets etc that it's the same as saying all immigrants are bad because some commit crimes. I am fizzing but trying to remain eloquent. I just can't believe educated, intelligent women don't see this shit for what it is!

[DocOfTheBay]

I can’t find / see the comments.
Do I have to subscribe?

I am really not willing to subscribe for drivel like this.

[stumbledin]

Wow! the comments on link to the article in the Guardian maind facebook page are nearly as inance as the article itself.

Seriously depressing level of discussion.

However, as if by magic Pink News now has an article by Rebecca Solnit titled (wait for it!):

Rebecca Solnit says it louder for the people at the back: ‘It’s impossible to be feminist if you exclude trans women’

And no I haven't read it but it is such a clear indication that these MRAs/TRAs so obviously think that if they lecture us long enough they will win the article.

On one level just want to laugh, but judging by the comments on the Guardian facebook page we are so far from getting people to understand what the issues are.

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

Plenty of evidence here too:
transcrimeuk.com/

[ApplejackCriesOnTheInside]

I see she finally listened to those men explaining things to her

[Scout2016]

Someone in the Facebook comments has linked to a public FB group called This Never Happens which seems to be set up to archive offences committed by individuals claiming to be female, or who are claiming it once they are caught and want to get a shorter sentence, or are wearing wigs and dresses when they commit crimes.... you get the idea. They are few and far between and spread across the world but to claim that no one trans has ever done anyone any harm when it's so easy to find evidence to the contrary... We live in a society where a male MP can openly and unashamedly block a bid to make upskirting illegal (and thwart efforts to protect against FGM). Of course worse will be happening elsewhere (not that upskirting is insignificant).

I'm not commenting there but I have emailed the Guardian.

[NiceGerbil]

'I thought the whole article could be summed up as 'I grew up with lots of gay
men and men in drag who were really nice to me, so we just need to be nice to trans people'

That's what I got from it as well.

[CharlieParley]

@ThePankhurstConnection

Punctuation trigger warning for pedants - my apostrophe key is stuck hence the misuse of commas

Why do people keep putting that bloody awful ContraPoints video up and some kind of fait accompli? It is the most godawful attempt at tackling the issues and it really irritates me that it is presented as a final say. If you cant be arsed discussing it yourself fine but don,t just link ContraPoints at me like that,s me told. It irritates the hell out of me when they toss that video out at you. So lazy, I can,t be arsed to make the points myself so here,s another man to make them for me I often wonder if they have even watched it.

So many people online remind me of the sheep in Animal Farm these days, just lobbing out slogans and insults in lieu of actually engaging their brains.

My theory is that superficially this seems to be a comprehensive rebuttal of radfem and/or GC views. Because it seemingly engages with them in good faith. You need to think a little deeper to refute the points made. Which requires a little more space and time than a social media post. But once you do, it's fairly obvious this has more flair than substance.

And lazily posting a video saves them engaging their own brain, while it requires a lot more effort from us to dispute its points.

[CharlieParley]

[quote Goosefoot]An in interesting take on Solnit from The Walrus.

thewalrus.ca/why-i-dont-read-rebecca-solnit/?gclid=CjwKCAjw4MP5BRBtEiwASfwAL3o9X2s9MHRVy9a_2Zrdke-TjggA1V2d7_Psf8YdjEvtW5AZFV3NkxoCaNwQAvD_BwE[/quote]
Scathing takedown that. Thank you for posting the link.

[Imsosorryalan75]

Please, please comment under the article with these views. Not enough is said to fight our corner. Theres are far too many comments supporting the article

[FoxBaseBeta]

It's now on the main Guardian Facebook page, as well as the Guardian opinion Facebook page (generally less traffic on the Opinion page)

[ThePankhurstConnection]

Just to be clear the ContraPoints video was put in the comments below the article on FB instead of any real points being made.

[ThePankhurstConnection]

Punctuation trigger warning for pedants - my apostrophe key is stuck hence the misuse of commas

Why do people keep putting that bloody awful ContraPoints video up and some kind of fait accompli? It is the most godawful attempt at tackling the issues and it really irritates me that it is presented as a final say. If you cant be arsed discussing it yourself fine but don,t just link ContraPoints at me like that,s me told. It irritates the hell out of me when they toss that video out at you. So lazy, I can,t be arsed to make the points myself so here,s another man to make them for me I often wonder if they have even watched it.

So many people online remind me of the sheep in Animal Farm these days, just lobbing out slogans and insults in lieu of actually engaging their brains.

[Siablue]

@HeirloomTomato

Also, no-one is saying to women: ‘don’t ever question the credentials or ID of a workman who comes to your house. Doing so causes profound harm and may cause the workman to commit suicide & you’ll be the one to blame. Men who claim to be workmen are who they say they are. #believeworkmen’ and so on.

Quite the opposite, in fact. Women are generally encouraged to question people who want access to our spaces - unless they claim to identify as female and then they are sacrosanct and can never be questioned and anyone who does so is a hateful ignorant transphobe.

I would never let anyone strange in my house (male of female) without seeing ID. This is such an odd example to choose.

Her argument is a wired combination of this never happens (without presenting evidence for this) and I am so much cooler than you because I am from San Francisco. I had never heard of her before.

[AsTreesWalking]

Is there a name for this kind of pro-trans smorgasbord bingo?
I think you've just invented one! PTSB

[highame]

Interesting though, just how many actors (I use the term for both men and women, just in case) haven't made any comments at all, so the 'silence is violence' threat doesn't seem to have worked