Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

The Times and Harry The Owl

160 replies

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 08/08/2020 22:11

Oh, well, this is interesting

twitter.com/WeAreFairCop/status/1292160071208706054

OP posts:
Imnobody4 · 09/08/2020 10:37

Five days earlier, James Benefield, a senior executive at Hodder, had sent Yule the Mermaids review and told him: “Mermaids have requested quite a few changes here. It is important we do follow all of the attached advice — not only is it from a trans-specialist organisation, it is also from the company lawyer who felt they were best placed to review the piece.”

I'm speechless.

SophocIestheFox · 09/08/2020 10:41

@LetsSplashMummy

I think it's worrying that we are having to tread carefully in case we offend someone regarding something they think, but don't take the same steps around things that really happen. Female students will be all too aware of the low conviction rate for rape and sexual assault, without the language softened for their consumption.

It's like "sticks and stones may break your bones... but my opinions about myself are so much more important than mere broken bones."

very good point.
Datun · 09/08/2020 10:49

@Imnobody4

Five days earlier, James Benefield, a senior executive at Hodder, had sent Yule the Mermaids review and told him: “Mermaids have requested quite a few changes here. It is important we do follow all of the attached advice — not only is it from a trans-specialist organisation, it is also from the company lawyer who felt they were best placed to review the piece.”

I'm speechless.

It's very sinister.

Apart from anything else what on earth could be SO triggering about this case. It was about free speech. Not assault, blackmail, torture.

And a company lawyer knows more than a high court judge?

I wonder if it was the judge likening the police action to the gestapo that needed such swift deletion.

DialSquare · 09/08/2020 10:51

They obviously thought they'd get away with this so how many other similar incidences have gone under the radar? I'm taking it as another sign that the tide is turning and people are standing up to it. Good for the Author for not going along with it.

Datun · 09/08/2020 10:56

Good for the Author for not going along with it.

Indeed. He sacrificed his job for his principles.

DialSquare · 09/08/2020 11:01

@Datun

Good for the Author for not going along with it.

Indeed. He sacrificed his job for his principles.

Sadly yes. Hopefully he'll be snapped up by another company looking for his qualities. I know I would if I were in a position to employ him.
beargrass · 09/08/2020 11:02

@Datun

Good for the Author for not going along with it.

Indeed. He sacrificed his job for his principles.

I agree. But what appears to be emerging is that some groups have far too much of a reach in drafting words. Words that matter.

Hypothetically, if it were the case that those words belonged to the police, CPS, Whitehall etc., how likely is it that staff would resign in protest or be able to tell their story? Not very, would be my guess.

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/08/2020 11:03

Didn't Mermaids fairly recently advertise for and recruit an (expensive) in-house lawyer?

BovaryX · 09/08/2020 11:07

Seeking to warn students - who may be our future lawyers and judges - that this factual information is triggering and not safe to read?

It really is quite extraordinary. What is actually happening in education? What will happen when the students schooled in this manner are able to exert significant power over people when they are established in professional careers?

hellandhairnets · 09/08/2020 11:15

Sadly yes. Hopefully he'll be snapped up by another company looking for his qualities. I know I would if I were in a position to employ him.

To be fair, I'd have thought this would just be a sideline for that author, it wouldn't be his fulltime job! He's likely to be a legal expert himself.

Melroses · 09/08/2020 11:23

I found it difficult to get my head around, but inviting lobby groups to comment on the wording of educational text books/magazines seems like madness to me. Where is the consensus of the experts in this field?

ThePurported · 09/08/2020 11:25

@FannyCann

What else has been censored by Mermaids? Who else do they give "feedback" to?

The data leak last year revealed emails between The Tavistock and Mermaids checking that patient information leaflets met with approval. Hmm

The CPS - "our colleagues at Mermaids" www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3910534-Girls-legal-challenge-to-CPS?pg=4

EHRC - leaked emails suggested they were working with Mermaids to find a test case for suing schools
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3613168-Data-breaches-by-Mermaids-exposed-in-the-Times

Newspapers
thecritic.co.uk/issues/january-2020/triumph-of-the-trans-lobbyists/

Melroses · 09/08/2020 11:27

@Imnobody4

Five days earlier, James Benefield, a senior executive at Hodder, had sent Yule the Mermaids review and told him: “Mermaids have requested quite a few changes here. It is important we do follow all of the attached advice — not only is it from a trans-specialist organisation, it is also from the company lawyer who felt they were best placed to review the piece.”

I'm speechless.

Me too. That was the bit that stood out.

Self-identification seems to be acceptable all over the place these days Hmm

AvocadoBathroom · 09/08/2020 11:30

The comments are better than the article.

ThePurported · 09/08/2020 11:36

It's a shame Andrew Gilligan left the Times. He would have joined the dots with all the other stuff and not made it about JK Rowling.

highame · 09/08/2020 11:42

@BoreOfWhabylon

Didn't Mermaids fairly recently advertise for and recruit an (expensive) in-house lawyer?
I doubt Judge J Knowles will be happy with Mermaids in house lawyer....whoops
truthisarevolutionaryact · 09/08/2020 11:45

So many excellent comments under that article.

andyoldlabour · 09/08/2020 11:51

"So many excellent comments under that article."

They are indeed. People are outraged that this was allowed to happen. I found the article easy to follow, found it hard to believe that Mermaids were allowed to have this much influence over what A Level law students were allowed to read.

Cailleach1 · 09/08/2020 11:55

Not just that, but to slyly change the fact for a fiction.

DialSquare · 09/08/2020 12:19

There's got to be some repercussions legally for this surely. Are court case facts protected in any way?

highame · 09/08/2020 12:27

Yes, verbatim I believe

MrsJamin · 09/08/2020 12:52

So what will happen with the A level article? Given that Hachette stood by it enough to let the author quit over it, will they still publish it? If I were Yule I'd want to publish that four page document by Mermaids.

DialSquare · 09/08/2020 12:59

@highame

Yes, verbatim I believe
Thanks highame. Just shows the utter arrogance doesn't it. They've been panderd too so much that they think they can do anything they want.
highame · 09/08/2020 13:16

tbh @DialSquare I think that's the point. This is the new agenda, fact don't matter, they are offensive 😕

FannyCann · 09/08/2020 13:49

Thanks ThePurported

And hadn't seen the article by Julie Bindel previously so that was an interesting read.