Response from Amnesty about their view on women's/trans rights

[Wildlingyoumakemyheartsing]

I wrote to Amnesty because they responded to the Times article, saying that the UK was going downhill on LGBTQ+ rights. I am sure this is generic response, so I apologise if it has already been discussed previously, but I have attached it underneath.

'Thank you for your email.

You can read our response to the reports that the Government intends to scrap plans to bring gender recognition laws in line with human rights standards here; www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-plans-drop-gender-recognition-reforms-would-see-uk-plummet-lgbt-equality-rankings. We find it extremely worrying.



Amnesty International is committed to campaigning for the rights of transgender people to live freely, authentically, and openly, and to have their gender legally recognised without having to go through a dehumanising, long and costly procedure. We live in a society that is more likely to discriminate and commit violence against transgender people, so we are proud to stand with them here in the UK and everywhere around the world. We dispute any assertion that self-identification will be used by men in order to access spaces where women are vulnerable to abuse or harassment. There is absolutely no evidence that this would happen. In countries where self-identification is already the process (Argentina, Ireland) the policy has had absolutely no impact on anyone other than trans people, making their lives easier. The reality is that men who abuse women already have plenty of existing opportunities to do so. Also, please note that access to single sex services is regulated by the Equality Act, not the Gender Recognition Act. The Equality Act is not up for reform.



We do not agree that our position will have a detrimental effect on women’s rights. This campaign and our response to the consultation are based on Amnesty’s research on legal gender recognition in multiple countries and on existing human rights standards. It also draws from our long-standing work on violence against women and its root causes. We have been discussing our stance with partners including women’s rights organisations in Scotland as well as England and Wales. We feel the current conversation, in particular on social media with regards to self-identification, is misguided and does a disservice to the great work of refuges and other spaces for survivors in terms of assessing risk and keeping people safe. Services and refuges for women have always served the small number of trans women who needed them; and used the same checks and safeguards to keep both trans women and cisgender women safe.



Restricting the rights of transgender people will not advance or protect women’s rights.



There were numerous responses to the Scottish consultation on the GRA recorded by rape crisis centres and other similar services. Responses from organisations to the Scottish consultation are available here: www.gov.scot/Topics/Justice/law/17867/gender-recognition-review/review-of-gender-recognition-act-2004-list-of-orga



Here are some examples:



Women's Rape & Sexual Abuse Centre Dundee & Angus - www.gov.scot/Resource/0053/00539505.pdf



“We are aware that there is discourse which suggests that a system of self-declaration would be a threat to women’s safe spaces. This is not our viewpoint. We want to emphasise that we already welcome self-identifying trans women into our safe spaces, that their inclusion does not in any way determine the safety of that space and that to suggest otherwise would be a disservice not only to our trans service users, but to the trans women working within our sector creating those safe spaces every day.”





Survivors Network - www.gov.scot/Resource/0053/00539458.pdf



“As an organisation that predominantly provides women-only services, we already work to a self-definition model. This works well for us and creates a space that is safe and welcoming for all women, cis and trans, which is very important to us. We welcome a move towards gender recognition laws that reflect our approach in recognising and validating trans people's identities.



Our organisation supports survivors of sexual violence and as a result safe and supportive spaces are vital. We don't consider that to be at odds with inclusion of trans women. Our understanding of gender-based oppression is not rooted in biology as such but in understanding womanhood as diverse and varied, with trans women's experiences holding an additional layer of bigotry and hatred in the form of transphobia as well as sexism. […] We hear a lot of fear-mongering about changes to the GRA making women-only spaces unsafe for cis women or that there will be men trying to get into these spaces. We want to make it clear that we, in our provision of women-only spaces and services, already work to the self-definition model proposed for the GRA.



We recognise trans women as women and also recognise the disproportionate levels of violence they experience due to their trans identities. This has in no way impacted negatively on our services or our service users.”





Forth Valley Rape Crisis - www.gov.scot/Resource/0053/00539308.pdf



“We currently support a model of self-declaration for those accessing our services and acknowledge that this will not change the way in which we work alongside survivors and those affected by sexual violence. If we do not allow space for survivors to self-declare their experience of their gender, we are not a survivor-led organisation and do not offer support which is relevant to those accessing it. We believe what survivors tell us about their experiences and know that they are best placed to tell us how this has affected them.



Forth Valley Rape Crisis already include and work with trans people on the basis of their self-declared gender identity and hope that the gender recognition law will be brought in line with our practice. We are hopeful the legislation will be reformed and believe that the rights and safety of trans people will be greatly improved and as a result.”



We invite you to read more about work on why we work on gender identity issues:

www.amnesty.org.uk/lgbt-gay-human-rights-sexual-orientation-gender-identity



www.amnesty.org.uk/we-support-reforming-gender-recognition-act



Kind Regards,

Charlie



Supporter Communications Team





Amnesty International UK,

The Human Rights Action Centre,

17-25 New Inn Yard,

London

EC2A 3EA'

[NotAGirl]

I was a long standing supporter of Amnesty, I stopped when I realised they started prioritising the men using sex workers instead of supporting sex workers. Clearly won't be restarting my standing order.

[Wondersense]

@growinggreyer Awful isn't it? It's basically an admission that some men abuse their power, so let's just give up any attempts at safeguarding eh?!! Idiots.

Also I loved this -

''We dispute any assertion that self-identification will be used by men in order to access spaces where women are vulnerable to abuse or harassment''

[SunsetBeetch]

Has anyone been getting these banner ads today? How do they not see the issue???

[bettybeans]

Amnesty aren't just captured, they're also acutely aware of commercial and sponsor related importance of pursuing new lines of 'inequality'. Their existence depends on it. Imagine if they spent their time focusing on the prejudice faced by trans people in countries where they really do face danger. What would be the point though? That's not where they'll get their funding.

[ItsLateHumpty]

Feminism Chat readers will be astonished to read that they are now advocating in favour of decriminalising prostitution.

If they actually thought for one minute: trafficking, bullying, addictions being created and exploited (by mostly male pimps), the revolting creatures who use prostitutes (it ain't Pretty Woman is it?), the violence, life expectancy...

They seem to have forgone their woke credit scoring though when it comes to prostituted transwomen who are murdered in comparable numbers to prostituted women in for eg Brazil. Or have they just forgotten that fact as it gets in the way of being so right on that “sex work is work”? And why aren’t the TRAs up in arms about this since they use these very stats. to prove that transwomen (in the UK ) are murdered in huge numbers every day, and that’s why women can’t have any private spaces away from men.

Tossers.

[BatShite]

Umm, from the twitter thread andy posted above..some guy said he had never seen a terf who wasnt white so I read the replies to that. Was of course sent a short list from the top of someones head. So he says he doesn't look closely at those who disagree with him. Fair point, but if thats the case, how do you 'know' its only white people?

Anyway, my real question is this..

trans-exclusionary "radical" feminism is inseparable from white supremacy.

When did this gem pop up..and how on earth are they spinning that? I expect they think while BLM is all over the news, linking terfs with white supremacists is a great idea. But I don't see how this argument could possibly make any sense? Unless its the racist bollocks of 'black people did not know sex was a thing until colonized by whites!' thing again, which would surely reflect badly on the activist, rather than the 'terfs'

[BatShite]

The blanket refusals of companies/charities that it will never happen is just pathetic when there is proof its already happened. Time to change that line I think.

The 'men will abuse you anyway' is awful. We know this, and would rather there were less opportunities for them to do so thanks

Also, its not about them being trans. Its about them being MALE. The trans part is not here nor there.

[ShinyFootball]

On decriminalisation of prostitution.

Remember that it's legal in the UK already under certain circs.

Amnesty correctly say that there are many countries where prostitution is illegal, giving the mainly women and girls earning money this way major problems. They risk being arrested and often badly mistreated by police. They cannot report men who abuse them as they area engaging in an illegal activity. I would guess (but don't know) that some countries would penalise the prostitute more harshly than the punter, or him not at all.

So there is sense to their words BUT they don't want the purchase of a person for sex to be illegal. Which is the bit that is a worry. They say it should be completely decrim as otherwise it still goes underground. And it should be seen as a normal job and a normal thing to buy, which explodes demand.

The fact they have members in Ireland at least, who believe that sex is a human RIGHT, puts a different angle on things.

Amnesty did release a statement at the time in response to the sex is a human right thing.

[Ninkanink]

Both. Glad you’re aware.

I could be wrong but I believe that WA have said that any man who identifies as female is a woman as far as they’re concerned. But I could be wrong and if anyone can definitively correct me on that I’d be very happy indeed.

[andyoldlabour]

Ninkanink

Is that the Vancouver one which Oger stopped the funding for, or the one with that guy flashing his ladydick?
I wasn't aware of the Women's Aid policy, so will have to have a look.

[Ninkanink]

andy you might want to look into a certain Canadian refuge for vulnerable women.

You might also want to look into Women’s Aid and their policy in this regard.

[andyoldlabour]

I found it really hard to believe about the Forth Valley Rape Crisis centre, but a quick Google confirmed it. Seriously, how could they let it happen? The very place which should have utmost empathy for women and they put a transwoman in charge?????

uk.linkedin.com/in/mridul-wadhwa-06b1bb1

twitter.com/mridul_wadhwa?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Mridul retweeted this.

twitter.com/travisalabanza/status/1272211238869753856

[SerenityNowwwww]

Ignore the kiddy. Mummy will take their phone back soon.

[Thisismytimetoshine]

Will you fuck off??

[SerenityNowwwww]

I’ve got several. Much cheaper on eBay. Just don’t get second hand 🤢

[Ninkanink]

That is why we deal in absolutes (as does anyone of substance in the real world).

Biological sex; material reality.

[littlbrowndog]

Get me one as well. 😂

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

This is why we should not accept the linguistic fudge that transwomen are women. This is why it matters. Because if you accept that then you give transwomen the right to speak on behalf of women and if the people listening or reading don't know that it's a transwoman speaking then they may assume that they are getting the female perspective. They are not.

Exactly.

[SerenityNowwwww]

Absolutely. Get 2.

[SerenityNowwwww]

If they think this way how can they argue that women and girls in developing (and some developed) countries need to have access to toilets - particularly single-sex toilets?

How do they explain babies being murdered at birth or aborted on the basis of their sex?

Women treated like lesser beings in some societies - so when girls and women are raped and murdered their attackers walk free?

When the Yazidi women were put in cages and burned to death because they refused to be sold as sex slaves?

Without 'sex' - how can they fight for these women and girls? They can't because they've got woke cookies stuffed in their ears and can't hear them.

[OldCrone]

The reality is that men who abuse women already have plenty of existing opportunities to do so

Why do so many organisations think this is a great line to defend their dismantling of any protection for women and girls? Liberty said the same thing in their reply to my letter when I cancelled my membership following their support for reform of the GRA.

It is also important to note that men are already perpetrating violence against women and girls daily and are not looking to the Gender Recognition Act to enable them.

Why do they think that removing any protection for women and girls is justified by 'men will rape women anyway'?

[SerenityNowwwww]

But won't someone please think of the men?

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

i wonder if they realise how tone deaf they come across. There's not one shred of empathy in that response, no acknowledgemnt of your concerns however unfounded they might feel them to be

This has always been my issue. Yet we're supposed to put our feelings to one side and fawn over those of males, when people don't give a single fuck about women's?