The Good Fight

[ThePawtriarchy]

Does anyone watch The Good Fight? The most recent episode had a story line about a female athlete that had lost her place on the Olympic swim team to a FTM transgender person. She lost her case against them but then won against an intersex person on the same team. I think they were trying to show a balanced view but the women in the practice were siding with the transgender woman which was probably realistic but felt like a moral judgement. The ending seemed to feel negative towards the female athlete - a bit ‘well if this is the only way you can get onto the team’.

I don’t know, looking to see if anybody else saw it anyway, to chat about it.

[contactusdeletus]

I agree it seemed a bit unlikely for a 17 year old intersex girl not to be aware of her condition - especially as a swimmer in training for the Olympics! I'm no expert but it feels like she would have had quite a few medical check ups in the lead up to that.

The set up was very much a last minute twist, but overall I was surprised and impressed by the inclusion of the intersex character in the narrative. Time and again we've seen intersex issues and language co-opted by the gender identity brigade, to the extent where I think a lot of people honestly aren't sure what the difference is.

I didn't expect that the show would come down so firmly on the differences. They make it really clear that although Piper tests for a higher testestorone level, her body doesn't absorb this testestorone and so she reaps none of the benefits - unlike the transwoman character Sadie.

Maybe it was just me, but I also felt the narrative treated Piper with more sympathy. The court felt quite rehearsed in its attitude to Sadie. Everyone was afraid of putting a foot wrong, everyone felt there was some way in which they "should" be behaving - some script they ought to be following - but they didn't really know why. It wasn't instinctive kindness, it was instinctive fear. (See Liz's incredibly weak "the younger generation just get this more than we do" line back at the office.)

By contrast, everyone's reactions to Piper's plight felt like they were coming from the heart. Piper was about to lose a spot she deserved to keep, through no fault of her own, because the system was set up to favour a transwoman over her. Not only that, but her entire sense of identity had been turned on its head in the most public and humiliating manner. The moment when the judge asked "does she know she'd be classified as that?" was particularly upsetting.

There was also a marked contrast between the ways Piper, Sadie and Melanie behaved in the courtroom. Sadie cried on the stand when the spotlight was on but was dry-eyed and angry when unobserved in the audience. Which leads me to think Sadie's predominant genuine emotion was anger at having this privilege questioned. Piper never got to speak at all, but sat crying silent tears in the audience. Predominant emotion: devastation. From Melanie's facial expressions and what little we see of her, I'd put her predominant emotions as hurt and confused. Three "girls". Three emotional responses. Spot the one odd one out.

[Lamahaha]

I watched The Good Wife right up to the end, and started The Good Fight, but couldn't really get into it. Might give it another shot, though...

[winterisstillcoming]

I really enjoyed it but on a side note I was really disappointed when Boseman accepted to run for president just so that he could be the token black person.

I'm coloured and sometimes I wonder if the diversity things opens doors so this kind of thing does us no favours.

I feel the last few episodes tried to take on too many issues although they did it well and did their bit in making the viewer face up to certain issues.

[miri1985]

I watched The Good Wife right up to the end, and started The Good Fight, but couldn't really get into it. Might give it another shot, though...

@Lamahaha its a great series but be warned in season 3 Michael Sheen is a guest star and does an accent so awful I had to put on subtitles and mute the scenes he was in after a few episodes

[HalleLouja]

How is everyone watching it? I really enjoy it but can’t find season 4 in the Uk.

[contactusdeletus]

The Good Fight is a bit hit and miss, as a show, but there's some fantastic satire of the Trump administration on display, in addition to some well-deserved criticism of the Democrat machine.

The issue of Adrian being asked to stand for President - not so he can win, but to serve as a black face who won't drop out embarrassingly early in the campaign - mirrors the experience of Julius Cain as a black Republican judge. In both cases the men are offered tokenistic positions of power and have to consider whether or not they can make them work for their own purposes in accepting. And then on the sidelines you have Liz, supportive of Adrian generally but biting out "would it kill them to hire a woman?" and trying to hide her annoyance as she corrects his pronunciation of Kamala Harris's name.

Like I say, the show does some things well. It misfires on other counts though. There's currently an awkward plot running about Liz having a fling with a younger male member of staff, with the implication that their attraction to each other is based mostly on the frisson of crossing racial lines. (She's black, he's white, they're "just experimenting".) You can see what they're going for - an exploration into the way subconscious biases can fuel attraction, and a look at how the balance of power isn't always clear cut in relationships. (Does it fall along lines of race, sex, job title, actual influence with the "big bosses"? How do those lines blur sometimes?) The execution of these plots can be sloppy, but generally the show runners are trying to do something topical with them. Your mileage may vary on the effectiveness, is all.

[contactusdeletus]

The show airs on CBS All Access, a pay to view subscription service in America. You can sign up and watch via a VPN. I think it airs on a few terrestrial TV channels on this side of the pond as well, though most people probably watch it via streams or torrent. Terrestrial channels tend to lag about a season behind on all these American shows

[HalleLouja]

It used to be a week behind on More 4 for prior seasons but obviously not this one.

[JaninaDuszejko]

This show is (finally) on Channel4 but I thought this discussion was worth highlighting again. On one hand I think the show felt very American in the balance of the arguments (the reviews I read are all very protrans), and the final conclusion. On the other it did cover a lot of the important issues so I wonder what the bulk of the American audience felt.

[NutellaEllaElla]

Wow i'm in the UK and we only just got this series/episode now! Almost a year after this thread!

The endocrinologist annoyed me by saying that testosterone was the only way to differentiate males and females! Like even I know that's not bloody true!

[felulageller]

I'm watching it on C4 but not got to this episode yet.

[QuimReaper]

I was hoping there'd be a thread about this. I too was at first heartened by the robust presentation of the biological advantages, but disappointed by Liz's capitulation. I think the arguments made upthread (last year!) are very interesting though, and can see the argument that it was subtly handled, and that an outright GC position would have potentially detracted from the space it gave to consideration of the issue as a complex one.

[Scarydinosaurs]

I just watched and felt the intersex storyline was a cop out. I do acknowledge it was handled better than other shows might do it, and the ‘be kind’ petition can fuck off.

I hope we see more open discussion of the issues. How can people hear those arguments and say “oh but they experience such hardship” to justify prioritising feelings over science?