We’re Still Here Conference 8th September: A report from the inside

[TheHarpySings]

Hi all

First off, I’m a regular poster, have been here for years under various usernames, it I’m posting here on a name change as I don’t want this traced to me.

On 8th September there was a conference held in London a Bloomsbury Baptist Church which was called We’re Still Here, which featured a variety of panels and workshops and was attended by many prominent people in the pro-GRA reform camp.

I decided to attend to find out what was being said as it was clear that they did not want anyone to attend that wasn’t a TRA or an ally.

What follows are my notes from the day. But first a few notes on attendance:

There were probably 80-100 people in attendance. Overwhelmingly white. Mainly older transwomen. A couple of transmen. Some Mermaids delegates. Some fellow travellers/ allies. And me.

Okay. So here’s my notes

1. Health Panel:
   Chair was Dr Ben Vincent of GIRES.
   
   Part of the discussion on this panel was around GPs reluctance to prescribe “bridging hormones”. GPs are reluctant/afraid to prescribe them for liability reasons. Apparently a brand of T-Gel was withdrawn and GPs are reluctant to switch brands.
   
   There was then a bit of chatter about whether a person’s sex was relevant for healthcare stats.
   
   Then there was discussion about trans children. Dr Vincent was very scathing about GIDS-said there was disgusting and unethical practices. BV spoke about dispelling the myths about desistance and the myths of ROGD- BV called this “concern trolling, malicious and ethically bankrupt”. BV would like a review of the whole system.
   
   Then Dr Vincent said that they’d received a review copy of “Born in your own body” edited by Heather Brunskell-Evans and Michele Moore. BV is reviewing it for some Royal College and said “I will tear it a new arsehole”
   
   Also (and they didn't want this tweeted) BV is also planning a book called Terf Wars which will be a “rigorous takedown of terf arguments” which is getting serialised as articled in some peer reviewed journal- I’m sorry but I couldn’t catch which one.
   
   Dr Stuart Lorimer, of the Tavistock and Portman who was also a panellist- said that ROGD is “evidence free”.
   
   There was a great deal of discussion as to the health risks for transwomen taking certain brands of hormones- one person said they knew three other people who’d died taking them, and they’d nearly died as well.

[deepwatersolo]

Isn't it ironic, Harpy? All those months and years women wanted to debate, we were shouted down, noplatformed, because #nodebate.

When women did not cow to it but continued meeting and debating amongst themselves, the #nodebate crowd resorted to violence and intimidation. To no avail. All the TRAs did was demonstrate male rage.

Now that women have realized that it is pointless to debate with abusive narcissists and have moved on, debating safeguarding and ignoring the male rage, suddenly they whine 'why won't you debate with us'.

It is quite funny, really. I thought I had put this type of lunacy behind me, once my kid outgrew toddler age, but, apparently, even grown people can resort to it and then wonder why it does not work out.

[Datun]

And when Venice Allan does live stream her debates, transactivists attempt to privately prosecute her!!!

Honestly. Just listen to yourself.

[Datun]

There’s no open invitation though is there? Inviting specific people implies (wherher it’s true or not) that you have an agenda.

All the representatives you can think of have been invited, including Stonewall. They all refused.

The debates that have been going on have been more like single party conferences rather than all party conferences. You want a proper debate? You need to have 2 or more sides of the argument debated.

^^ see, this is trans logic again. Trans people are constantly invited to the debate, they relentlessly refuse to attend, instead stand outside chanting burn it down.

And you complain there is no debate!

🤣

[Janie143]

WPUK also record their meetings and make them available to the publc.

[Datun]

deepwatersolo

God. That's awful.

[TheHarpySings]

oopster the event clearly stated that they did not want attendees who weren’t transgender rights activists or allies. I would not have been “allowed” to attend as a vocal gender critical feminist.

I’ve been to WPUK meetings and both times venues were threatened and cancelled at the last minute, and were heavily protested. Pro self ID people have also attended the events and added their voices to the discussion and were treated respectfully.

There were no feminists trying to prevent We’re Still Here or protesting the venue (despite an email going out to attendees warning them of the dangerous terfs who might be there to disrupt the meeting). I have no doubt in my mind that if I had voiced any kind of gender critical view whilst there I would have been ejected and possibly put in danger. I wasn’t there to put across a different view point - I was there to listen.

[oopster]

There’s no open invitation though is there? Inviting specific people implies (wherher it’s true or not) that you have an agenda.

The debates that have been going on have been more like single party conferences rather than all party conferences. You want a proper debate? You need to have 2 or more sides of the argument debated. You need to go into the discussion with the possibility of your views being changed. There’s been protests outside these gra meetings because they’ve not been open to all. If it wasn’t for people protesting, there wouldn’t be equal voting rights would there? We benefit from the truly horrible actions of some people, who did the wrong things for the right reasons.

[deepwatersolo]

Yes, Dantun, baby foreskins contain stem cells, which they use to grow cells for medical purposes, but also cosmetics. Can‘t paste the link but if you google ‚foreskin business‘ the first hit should be a Vice article, they say one Milliliter sells for >400 bucks.
Funny enough they seem to link intactivism to MRAs, in which case I guess, I and MRAs finally have one common cause...

[placemats]

hospitals sell foreskins for good money,

I'm reminded of the book 'Memoirs of a Geisha Girl', specifically the collection of hymens by that creep.

Men don't have hymens.

[R0wantrees]

Rosa Freedman (human rights law expert) in a speech at FiLiA yesterday said she had invited 20+ trans-rights speakers to an event she is organising. All so far had refused.

[oopster]

Remind me who went on a tv debate and continually shouted “penis” at the guests?

[oopster]

I don’t get notifications of all replies, plus I don’t sit on the internet waiting for replies to forum posts all day 😂

[Datun]

hospitals sell foreskins for good money,

What!

[Datun]

Terfs (and that’s what they are) claim to want to debate, but they only want to debate with themselves, no dissenting voices are allowed

Gender critical women have forced the government to issue a consultation, in the teeth of #NoDebate.

Venice Allen has invited literally dozens of transactivists to her meetings, all refused - #NoDebate.

Paris Lees, Bex Stinson, etc, refuse to share a platform with feminists - #NoDebate.

Every single venue who hosts a talk is threatened and harassed - #NoDebate.

And I know you know all this, you're just pissing in the wind.

[deepwatersolo]

pennydrew since I have read up on the circumcision of boys and realizing that beside being a business (hospitals sell foreskins for good money, the baby or parents see none of it) circumcision is also a fetish (and one the most vocal pro-circ doctor in Australia is into, as his electronic trail to fetish sites reveals) nothing of the sort surprises me.
I can well believe Money fetishized his patient‘s ‚conversion‘ somehow, I think he also demanded from the siblings acts (also with one another) that one would expect from paedophiles.
This overinvolvement of adult transpeople in the issues of gnc kids may well not only be driven by a need for identity validation but also by such fetishes in some of them.

[RedToothBrush]

Terfs (and that’s what they are) claim to want to debate, but they only want to debate with themselves, no dissenting voices are allowed

Remind me who has boycotted and refused to go on TV and radio shows which resemble a debate?

[pennydrew]

Why the intense interest in lowering the age of consent for everything to do with sex/sexuality/gender?

Has anyone read about John Money? I was talking to my DD about Janet Frame, as she had yet to read her books and as I was looking her up I saw she was treated by and then friends with him... I didn’t realise he was the doctor responsible for what happened to David Reimer ( and indirectly the suicide of his twin also ) and as I was reading more about him I saw he believed there was a difference between sadistic pedophilia and ‘affectionate pedophilia’. My eyes nearly dropped out of my head. He also blamed ‘right wing media’ and weirdly ‘anti-feminism’ for the controversy around him and his beliefs on transsexualism. I noted intersex people and advocates blamed him for the fact surgery on intersex infants becoming routine. I also found it interesting that Janet Frame was so close to him as later on, medical professionals in NZ believed she was autistic ( she had for years been in asylums, had electric shock therapy and was lined up for a lobotomy ).

I just found the connections super interesting.

[Knicknackpaddyflak]

In fact rad fems, and women generally, are equally ready to plead not to have to know what's up the skirt of any women either.

[AngryAttackKittens]

Today in "things I never, ever want to see"...

[Knicknackpaddyflak]

no dissenting voices are allowed

What you actually mean by 'not allowed' is 'not agreed with'. Dissenting voices get debated with here instead of unconditionally accepted and pandered to. They don't like it. Them not liking it and hearing women saying 'no' to them is not 'shutting down debate' or 'hate crime'.

[Knicknackpaddyflak]

Accusing radfems of making up skirt pics of transwomen

Oh dear, doesn't that bit of fantasy give it away?

No, love. Upskirting is a male thing based on sexual interest. No rad fem on the planet wants to know anything about what is up the skirt of any transwoman or in fact the skirt of any male at all, never mind have to see it. Zero interest. Nothing. None.

[hackmum]

Terfs (and that’s what they are) claim to want to debate, but they only want to debate with themselves, no dissenting voices are allowed

It's curious, isn't it, that at the very first meeting organised by feminists to discuss the GRA reforms, representatives from Stonewall were invited to take part and agreed. They then pulled out at the last minute, refusing to share a platform with GC feminists. Then the venue was targeted with threats by TRAs, so another venue had to be found and kept secret. People who wanted to attend gathered at Hyde Park Corner, where they were met by a barrage of insults and aggression by TRAs and one woman, Maria MacLachlan, was physically assaulted by a TRA. That led to A Woman's Place UK being formed, and every meeting they've had since then has been targeted by TRAs trying to close them down and in one case issuing bomb threats against the venue.

How dare you, how fucking dare you, say that it is feminists who are refusing to debate.

[LangCleg]

Terfs (and that’s what they are) claim to want to debate, but they only want to debate with themselves, no dissenting voices are allowed

Nell Stockton.

[deepwatersolo]

Removing safeguarding is the feature, not the bug, when it comes to the TRA agenda. As much has been demonstrated by now.

[placemats]

It's quite evident that oopster isn't listening.