We’re Still Here Conference 8th September: A report from the inside

[TheHarpySings]

Hi all

First off, I’m a regular poster, have been here for years under various usernames, it I’m posting here on a name change as I don’t want this traced to me.

On 8th September there was a conference held in London a Bloomsbury Baptist Church which was called We’re Still Here, which featured a variety of panels and workshops and was attended by many prominent people in the pro-GRA reform camp.

I decided to attend to find out what was being said as it was clear that they did not want anyone to attend that wasn’t a TRA or an ally.

What follows are my notes from the day. But first a few notes on attendance:

There were probably 80-100 people in attendance. Overwhelmingly white. Mainly older transwomen. A couple of transmen. Some Mermaids delegates. Some fellow travellers/ allies. And me.

Okay. So here’s my notes

1. Health Panel:
   Chair was Dr Ben Vincent of GIRES.
   
   Part of the discussion on this panel was around GPs reluctance to prescribe “bridging hormones”. GPs are reluctant/afraid to prescribe them for liability reasons. Apparently a brand of T-Gel was withdrawn and GPs are reluctant to switch brands.
   
   There was then a bit of chatter about whether a person’s sex was relevant for healthcare stats.
   
   Then there was discussion about trans children. Dr Vincent was very scathing about GIDS-said there was disgusting and unethical practices. BV spoke about dispelling the myths about desistance and the myths of ROGD- BV called this “concern trolling, malicious and ethically bankrupt”. BV would like a review of the whole system.
   
   Then Dr Vincent said that they’d received a review copy of “Born in your own body” edited by Heather Brunskell-Evans and Michele Moore. BV is reviewing it for some Royal College and said “I will tear it a new arsehole”
   
   Also (and they didn't want this tweeted) BV is also planning a book called Terf Wars which will be a “rigorous takedown of terf arguments” which is getting serialised as articled in some peer reviewed journal- I’m sorry but I couldn’t catch which one.
   
   Dr Stuart Lorimer, of the Tavistock and Portman who was also a panellist- said that ROGD is “evidence free”.
   
   There was a great deal of discussion as to the health risks for transwomen taking certain brands of hormones- one person said they knew three other people who’d died taking them, and they’d nearly died as well.

[R0wantrees]

Crap about 'cervix havers' is nonsense. It's unworkable, dehumanising and elitist. Not everyone knows what one is but people do know what a woman is.

Its dangerous.
There is a report on the news today about the increasing numbers of women who are not having smear tests.
Speaking clearly about women's bodies is a well-accepted central focus in raising awareness of gyny cancers.
Raising awareness has a significant impact on early diagnosis which improves outcomes for women

[R0wantrees]

I've repeatedly had NHS staff miss crucial points about my severe anxiety. It's usually because they are overworked and don't have time to read notes properly or because it simply hasn't been communicated.

By way of an additional example (there are many)
My gynaecoogical cancer was found during IVF. I had a total hysterectomy as medical neccessity.
I have had a number of subsequent CT scans and it is a requirement to ask (for very good reasons), "are you pregnant?" and to follow this up with a number of questions to be sure of this, "are you sure?" "when was your last period?" "have you had unprotected sex since then?" etc

I used to struggle with this. I could answer the first two, but further questions were distressing.

This is a common experience. There are often discussions amongst women affected about what might be done to prevent the distress of the woman who absolutely is sure she is not pregnant and for whom this is a cause of deep grief.

As Red says, the radiographer asking the questions is inevitably & absolutely overworked and has a matter of seconds to pick up a file and set up the appropriate scan.

It was awful but I got it and after a while found a way to pre-empt the follow-up questions which acknowledged both the department's needs as well as mine.

The bigger picture is always important but so too taking care of yourself where you might.

[Poppyred85]

I have one transgender patient out of a population of around 5000. That BMJ article is largely nonsense and as doctors our whole practice is centred around evidence based medicine. Sure, some things I do as a GP are based on anecdotal information rather than high quality data (my current favourite is putting duct tape on a verucca) but when it comes to something as significant as prescribing off label drugs to stop puberty I will not be doing it as a stop gap measure until someone sees the patient. That service is not commissioned and is outside my range of competence. While I would not want to cause any unnecessary distress to any of my patients, we know the suicide claim is overinflated and the core of medical ethics must always be: First, do no harm.

[qumquat]

Not sure if anyone's linked to this already but the recent posts made me think of it:

www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers-safe/

[RedToothBrush]

Speed is particularly important if I’m just starting puberty, when even the slightest delay can have disastrous effects as I’m forced to live with permanent changes caused by inappropriate hormones

Jazz Jennings complications were a direct result from having puberty blockers so early.

[TransposersArePosers]

Speed is particularly important if I’m just starting puberty, when even the slightest delay can have disastrous effects as I’m forced to live with permanent changes caused by inappropriate hormones, and through the turmoil of adolescence while those changes are happening

But no worries about the permanent effects of cross sex hormones (which is what I would call inapproporiate) or puberty blockers

There was a point by Placemats on another thread which I think is worth repeating as it really struck a chord with me about the safeguarding of children

"Oh and we are meant to believe that children will suffer to such an extent regarding gender dysphoria that they need medical attention.

However, on the other hand, an adult doesn't need to change anything."

[RedToothBrush]

We are one in 100 of your patients.

Roughly 650,000 babies are born in this country each year. And there are mothers for everyone.

Maternity sets ups the course of healthcare for the rest of life and poor healthcare in maternity for mothers can have knock on effects for both the child and the mother.

These patients are concentrated in one department. And the NHS can not get a lot of basics right and are ridiculously over stretched.

Acting like the trans community are somehow seconds class to everyone else pisses me off.

Mental health provision is non existant in some places and areas.

If we can improve both of those it would have an enormous impact.

Crap about 'cervix havers' is nonsense. It's unworkable, dehumanising and elitist. Not everyone knows what one is but people do know what a woman is.

I've repeatedly had NHS staff miss crucial points about my severe anxiety. It's usually because they are overworked and don't have time to read notes properly or because it simply hasn't been communicated. It's awful, and harmful to me but I get it. It shouldn't be like that. But the way to fix it, isn't to issue demands and emotional blackmail.

[R0wantrees]

1) Health Panel:
Chair was Dr Ben Vincent of GIRES.

Part of the discussion on this panel was around GPs reluctance to prescribe “bridging hormones”. GPs are reluctant/afraid to prescribe them for liability reasons. Apparently a brand of T-Gel was withdrawn and GPs are reluctant to switch brands.

There was then a bit of chatter about whether a person’s sex was relevant for healthcare stats.

Then there was discussion about trans children. Dr Vincent was very scathing about GIDS-said there was disgusting and unethical practices. BV spoke about dispelling the myths about desistance and the myths of ROGD- BV called this “concern trolling, malicious and ethically bankrupt”. BV would like a review of the whole system.

Then Dr Vincent said that they’d received a review copy of “Born in your own body” edited by Heather Brunskell-Evans and Michele Moore. BV is reviewing it for some Royal College and said “I will tear it a new arsehole”


Dr Ben Vincent describes influence on BMJ, GPs, NHS etc:
6/7/17
"I’m really delighted that a team (of which I was a member) comprised entirely of trans voices has been published in the BMJ (the British Medical Journal). Our article provides basic information for GPs providing healthcare to transgender people."
//genderben.com/2017/07/06/i-am-your-trans-patient/

BMJ article: 'I am your trans patient'
BMJ 2017; 357 doi: doi.org/10.1136/bmj.j2963 (Published 30 June 2017) Emma-Ben Lewis, clinical teaching associate, Ben Vincent, medical sociologist, Alex Brett, Sarah Gibson, Reubs J Walsh, developmental neuropsychologist:
(extract)
"Thinking outside the “M/F” tickbox
You’ll need to think outside the tick-box about what’s relevant for my body: is a smear test really necessary for all women (and only women)? Or is it for everyone with a cervix? The same goes for prostate and breast screening, and for any aspect of medicine where there’s a distinction between how you’d treat a “male” and how you’d treat a “female.” Those categories have never been the whole story—trans and intersex people have always been here—but the medical literature often oversimplifies, to our detriment. Knowing that I’m trans doesn’t tell you anything about my primary and secondary sexual characteristics; but then neither does knowing—or assuming—that I’m not. If you need to ask, check whether I prefer to talk about my body in a particular way to minimise discomfort—I might want to avoid certain words, for example. Although I might be comfortable talking about my breasts, or going to get a routine prostate screening, it’s also possible that I might want you to talk about my “chest” instead, or help me find ways to engage with the men’s health unit that won’t cause me tremendous distress." (continues)

"Trans-specific care
I might come to you for help with medical transition. Most likely this will just mean routine prescription and management of my hormone therapy; but sometimes it’ll be my first disclosure. It’s okay if you’re not familiar with the care pathways: but you should know that they exist and where to find them, and take steps to move me onto them swiftly.
Speed is particularly important if I’m just starting puberty, when even the slightest delay can have disastrous effects as I’m forced to live with permanent changes caused by inappropriate hormones, and through the turmoil of adolescence while those changes are happening.

Be aware that NHS gender services are hugely over-subscribed, and the current long waiting times—sometimes years—can be excruciating; but if you stay engaged with the process and keep me updated, you’ll help me to avoid some of that pain. In fact, you’ll be supporting me to access specialist treatment with one of the highest satisfaction rates of any branch of medicine.

We are your trans patients. We are one in 100 of your patients. You won’t always know who we are—two of us have written for this series before, when our trans status wasn’t relevant, so we didn’t bring it up. We know it’s difficult sometimes when your systems struggle to include us, or the literature you rely on doesn’t tell you how to treat us. But we’re here, we exist; and we’re counting on you." (continues)

"Footnotes
Competing interests: We have read and understood BMJ policy on declaration of interests and declare the following: none."

//www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2963

[AngryAttackKittens]

Oger actually looks a bit like Fred Armisen to my eye, if Armisen's nose was 3 times its size. Which is quite funny if you've seen Portlandia.

[ZuttZeVootEeVro]

I think Sonixx may have face blindness.

[AngryAttackKittens]

Sonixx, mate, you might want to give these lovely people a ring and make an appointment.

www.specsavers.co.uk/

[theOtherPamAyres]

Im also surprised it hasn't become a big story

It's hearsay. It would be different if there were a recording. There are notes of the meeting - but good evidence requires a transcript, and an accurate one. I could go on - corroboration, witnesses, note-taking, blah,blah - but I won't.

Having said that, it is a good foundation for some pointed questions to the speakers at another time - as and when they ACT on what they've said.

• when the review of Transgender Trend's resource pack appears
  
• when Mermaids publishes its findings on the links between autism and transgender conditions (you would think that this had already been done if they purport to be the experts, so its damning that the study is planned only now!)
  

Now that we are aware of the cynical discussion around pretending to care about womens' and children's campaigns, then every retweet or endorsement will beg the question - are you for a real or is this a tactic to ingratiate yourself? Which is extremely, extremely damaging to both our causes.

It's only my opinion: I think that the notes of the meeting may not be "a story" overnight, but the notes - in all their shocking revelations - may be the start of one.

[Manderleyagain]

Silentcrow. Im also surprised it hasn't become a big story. I wonder if they (those who spoke at the conference) are trying to avoid the Streisand effect. It would be restrained and strategic of them, but would be the wiser move.

[Cuntysnark]

I’ve been asked if I’m ‘Bella’ the man Friday doxxer. Damn my blonde hair and all. Doesn’t make it so. Although I might have to change my hair colour to retain my credibility...

[LorettasBox]

I've been told I look like Dervla Kirwan or Susan George by people who actually met me. I'm fairly sure I can't possibly look like both of them, so there's that.

I have a nice recipe for Hat a la Banana if you're interested.

[TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap]

I was once told I looked like Audrey Hepburn. It was one of the proudest moments of my life, but even at 17 I knew the man saying it was deluded.

[NeurotrashWarrior]

Also, protesters at the Newcastle WPUK meeting were invited in to attend - and refused.

[NeurotrashWarrior]

And that's definitely not Venice in the first pic.


Moving on...

[NeurotrashWarrior]

Feel like I've wandered onto the sand thread in a parallel universe...

From the start of this thread the striking difference in format between this meeting and the WPUK meetings has been the fact that WPUK have all been public - MB even attended one I believe with a channel 4 film crew? - and this one hasn't bar one small part.

Regarding oopsters comments that's we really need to know.

[Datun]

I've been told I look like Nana Mouskouri.

The time I was about 17 and highly pissed off. Now I'm delighted.

[silentcrow]

It's the glasses. I've been told I look like Ruth Serwotka, and that's definitely the specs - my hair's a foot longer, the wrong colour, no fringe, and I'm rather bulkier!

I want to contribute something more sensible to this thread but it's just so horrifying and virtually unbelievable, it's been rolling around in my head for days. How is this not in the media yet? And even with the limited audience here, I'd have expected some of those named to have come on crying slander. Actually I'm amazed it's still here.

[Datun]

Venice has been interviewed for mainstream media, attends all her meetings which are streamed, talks in public, is often on TV, and recently spoke to the media outside Westminster magistrates court, right after being subject to proceedings inside.

I and many others have met her loads.

[R0wantrees]

[Sonixx]

OK fair enough. The first photo I looked at looked just like Oger to me. I was really shocked, so I posted it. Having looked at others now they look very different.

[LangCleg]

Venice is Morgane's doppleganger.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Christ almighty. Straws well and duly clutched.