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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

City of London Corporation consultation is out (this covers Hampstead Ponds)

272 replies

SwearyG · 26/07/2018 10:20

And it's awful

No mention of sex, no mention of impact on any stakeholders, all leading questions, and horrible clear intention to filter.

This will affect the wonderful space at Hampstead Ponds so I urge you all to complete it. I will be speaking to the Corporation about its clear bias and lack of adherence to guidelines.

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R0wantrees · 28/07/2018 06:01
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TheHopefulPuffin · 27/07/2018 21:01

I was flaberghasted reading the first "question" and felt a great sense of unreality filling in each section; it was cathartic to put them right in the comments section! I am not a resident or a business in the City, but I believe the erosion of women's rights is my business, no matter where this is happening.

If the thread is still being read, it may be worth noting that one of the Livery Companies, the Leathersellers, have given a substantial grant to the non-gender critical organisation named after a mythical sea creature. As is their right, obviously.

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sexnotgender · 27/07/2018 17:03

I’ve filled it in again from my work laptop.

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MinesAWhitMagnumPlease · 27/07/2018 16:31

I'm not in London but would be tempted to attend some of these (and into August) and have a casual chat with others to see if they know about what is most likely coming www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/visit-the-city/whats-on/women-work-power/Pages/women-work-power-july-events.aspx

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MinesAWhitMagnumPlease · 27/07/2018 16:22

EL is still on the standards committee
membership of standards committee

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MinesAWhitMagnumPlease · 27/07/2018 16:13

Sweary the code of conduct is missing sex as a protected characteristic ;
"Upholding the Corporation’s obligations under the Equality Act 2010 by promoting equality, and not discriminating unlawfully against any person on the grounds of race, gender, disability, religion or belief, sexual orientation or age."

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Hygge · 27/07/2018 15:55

I have completed the survey.

Mostly by pointing out that nobody is assigned a gender a birth, pointing out they have said 'gender' when they mean sex, and informing them that biological reality cannot be altered by feelings or an outfit.

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SunsetBeetch · 27/07/2018 15:02

No replies as yet...

City of London Corporation consultation is out (this covers Hampstead Ponds)
City of London Corporation consultation is out (this covers Hampstead Ponds)
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SunsetBeetch · 27/07/2018 15:01

Excellent twitter thread of questions made to CoL:

twitter.com/MMMMMMeow/status/1022552351998205953?s=19

City of London Corporation consultation is out (this covers Hampstead Ponds)
City of London Corporation consultation is out (this covers Hampstead Ponds)
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R0wantrees · 27/07/2018 14:29

Does anyone have a link to the interviews Edward Lord gave to the BBC?

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Procrastinator1 · 27/07/2018 14:13

SwearyG you could invite Lord to nominate you for the Masons on a Friday.

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IAmLurkacus · 27/07/2018 14:10

Who wrote that horseshit questionnaire? It reads like it was written by a stoned sociology student and not a particularly bright one?

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FloraFox · 27/07/2018 14:00

So this personage seems to be:

  • white
  • male NB in relationship with female NB (heterosexual in old money)
  • privately educated
  • a Mason
  • enjoys a hearty social life paid by others according to his register of interests
  • elected into the only council in the UK where businesses get to vote


And yet he doesn't seem to have had a proper job since leaving university. Maybe the non-binary oppression is the greatest oppression after all Hmm
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R0wantrees · 27/07/2018 13:57

I have copied over this comment from the Girl Guide thread, apologies for the length of text :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3314566-another-girlguiding-update

There are some insightful and very important points about safeguarding, lack of equality impact assessment, the Charity commission amongst others.

There are a number of very significant issues raised within the article below which seem likely to be similarly the case in other organisations, charities and services in private, voluntary and statuatory sectors:

Herald June 2018:
'Schools 'forget' girls in rush to adopt pro-trans guidance campaigners claim as Christian group threatens legal action'
(extract)
THE rights of Scottish schoolgirls are being undermined by rules allowing pupils to adopt a different gender and share changing rooms, it has been claimed, as it emerged schools are unprepared for the controversial overhaul.

A series of Freedom of Information (FoI) requests have revealed that councils have widely backed guidelines produced by organisations campaigning for the rights of transgender people but have not considered how the new approach will affect children – particularly girls.

The new guidelines tell teachers that if a transgender pupil wishes to share a changing room with "other young people who share their gender identity," they should be allowed to do so.

"There is no reason for parents or carers of the other pupils to be informed," it adds.

The guidelines say young people should be able to compete in the sports events for the gender they identify with, and says if other pupils are uncomfortable using changing rooms or toilets with transgender pupils, they should use other facilities or wait until the transgender pupil is done.

However none of the councils involved, nor the children’s commissioner, nor Education Scotland have carried out an equality impact assessment to ensure the rights and wellbeing of other pupils are unaffected. This means the impact on other students has not been taken into account.

The data comes as a Christian charity is due to launch a legal challenge over the new guidelines.

Lodged by feminist campaigner and mother of two Jess Stewart, the FoI results suggest councils are failing to consider the ramifications of the move .

Ms Stewart said she recognises the need to support transgender children.

“They are obviously wanting to do the right thing which is great. But they’ve done it without considering girls,” she said.

“Girls are absolutely negatively affected by this. It is important to raise awareness of transgender children but putting a transgender girl in a changing room with 30 other girls isn’t proportionate.

“They should at least have looked at the possible fall out from putting a male-bodied person in changing rooms which are being used by 14, 15 and 16 year old girls.”

Among the councils which have endorsed the guidance produced by LGBT Youth and the Scottish Trans Alliance, Glasgow, West Lothian, Clackmannanshire and South Lanarkshire said they were unable to publish an assessment of the likely impact on other pupils as they had not carried one out. Edinburgh City Council failed to respond. The office of the Scottish Children's Commissioner, Education Scotland and the Scottish Government have all also backed the LGBT Youth guide.

Scotland's Children's commissioner said: "We did not undertake and therefore do not hold" any research looking at how other pupils might be affected by the guidance.

Education Scotland said it did not have any policies itself relating to transgender pupils and therefore "there has been no requirement for Equality Impact Assessments in relation any new or revised policies or procedures regarding transgender and non-binary school children."

The Scottish Government said it had not carried out any equality impact assessments and said the responsibility for carrying them out lay with councils

Ms Stewart added: "Most of the organisations who have endorsed the LGBT guidance are publicly-funded, which means they have a responsibility to be transparent to the public about their decision making process and the importance of taking into account the risks and equalities of everyone." (continues)

//www.heraldscotland.com/news/16311379.schools-forget-girls-in-rush-to-adopt-pro-trans-guidance-campaigners-claim-as-christian-group-threatens-legal-action/

See also Times article covering the same:
(extract)
"In a letter to the Scottish government from law firm Balfour+Manson on behalf of the institute, ministers are asked to withdraw the guidance pending further consideration or risk judicial review.

Raising concerns about the shared use of toilets and changing facilities, it states: “For many young people, being forced to use a toilet or changing facilities with trans young people who retain the genitalia of the opposite sex raises a concerning disregard for personal privacy.”

Ciarán Kelly, the institute’s deputy director, said: “It beggars belief that the Scottish government has authorised a state-funded campaign group to dictate to teachers what their obligations are and strip parents of their responsibilities.” (continues)

//www.thetimes.co.uk/article/legal-battle-over-school-gender-rule-kbjkdnzxd

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Ereshkigal · 27/07/2018 13:53

Trouble is it's really hard to get into the Masons. You have to be nominated etc.

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Ereshkigal · 27/07/2018 13:51

I think Mr Lord OBE has a little room for improvement in fulfilling his duties under the Code of Conduct

Absolutely agree.

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MangoSplit · 27/07/2018 13:46

Yes agree OP. The solution is right there staring them in the face!

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SwearyG · 27/07/2018 13:43

Mango the 3rd space already exists at Hampstead Ponds. There are three - men's, women's and mixed. Somehow the mixed one being open to all isn't enough for the narcissists colonisers selfish men brave and stunning self identified "women". They need full access to the women's pond otherwise it's just not fair.

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SwearyG · 27/07/2018 13:41

That was me being slightly facetious, TheFemaleGaze but only slightly.

When ManFriday protested at the men's pond we self identified as men, and had it confirmed before we went that self ID was all it took. The police were still called, we were still removed and the bylaws state we can't be in there anyway (so the guidelines and bylaws don't match up).

In contrast when women complained that self ID "women" with male bodies were at the ladies' pond they were told to get over it and the association changed their rules to officially allow male bodied people who identify as women in.

Doesn't sound like the same response does it? I wonder why...

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MangoSplit · 27/07/2018 13:40

Thanks for the link OP. I've completed the survey and basically repeated over and over again that the 'third space' concept would work well and remove the issues of proof etc.

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TheFemaleGaze · 27/07/2018 13:38

My primary question continues to be: why only the women's pond? As a woman, I feel targeted. Someone on here said the men's pond will remain men only?

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Procrastinator1 · 27/07/2018 13:30

I think Mr Lord OBE has a little room for improvement in fulfilling his duties under the Code of Conduct. Not sure if he is still on the Standards Committee, but he was, he might even have been chair, so I'm sure he is very familiar with the CoD.

I echo what everyone has said about ManFriday. Well done, they wouldn't be doing such a crap consultation without you. Hope this leads to lots of publicity, the odd legal challenge, who know what.

Does CoL money count as public money?

SwearyG, I think you might have to roll a trouser leg up and bare a breast or half a chest

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SwearyG · 27/07/2018 13:19

I’d say no because I don’t think I could cope with the insufferable company, Charlie but I think you may be on to something

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Charliethefeminist · 27/07/2018 13:13

I filled this in at length and I'd like to ask if Sweary is going to identify as a man to join Lord's lodge.

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gendercritter · 27/07/2018 13:10

From Dr MegJohn's article:

Does your gender intersect with any other parts of you – such as race, disability, sexuality, faith? How do you navigate that, if so?

Absolutely: for me I think my whiteness, bisexuality, mixed/middle class-ness, mental heath, and Buddhism all intersect with non-binary gender in complex and important ways.

It just baffles me that grown adults can write rubbish like this. It comes across as so utterly narcissistic

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