Is it just me who hates the word "transphobic"?

[Pandoraphile]

Because it's bandied about and shouted from the rooftops every time a person dares to comment on a trans thread with anything other than dazzling praise? You know, with things like facts or biology.

Say anything that disagrees = transphobic.

Say anything that is biologically and factually true that they don't like = transphobic.

And never mind the utter bollocks I saw on another thread about using the wrong pronoun being violence
I mean, WHERE does this shit come from???

[FredNerk]

Thank you thebewilderness :)

Pandoraphile -

SOME transwomen. I'm by no means lumping them all in together.

Is the term NAMALT (not all men are like that) used on MN much? Same thing applies to these men. Talking about the behaviour of men as a class, whether they cross-dress or not, shouldn’t need disclaimers. I know, it’s damn hard to stop doing it, even more so with the extra layers of hatred the trans lobby has for women and their disproportionate political power. But “some transwomen” shouldn’t need to be said any more than “some men” (same thing). There’s a point where one wonders, is it misplaced kindness on women’s part? Entirely female socialisation (the origin of that misplaced kindness)? Fear of attacks? Because it doesn’t matter how many NATALT disclaimers we make. Being a woman puts you in the wrong with misogynists. Even the women who handmaiden to this group are no safer from them than those who speak the truth.

[Terfulike]

Thank you rufus

[thebewilderness]

FredNerk
Always important to reiterate the essential elements for those just joining us.

[Rufustheconstantreindeer]

Ignore exwife terfulike

She misread your post and doesnt have enough backbone to hold her hand up

You were quite obviously quoting poula who at least has the courage of her convictions

(I dont...im not 100% sure of my convictions)

[Terfulike]

Exwife I stand by every word I said and all my posts on mn (also appearing as wombman) and all requotes of other posters taken in the context presented.

Hence I shall requote Poulo's question and my own answer:

Question why does a campaign against Self ID require so much demonization, derision, mocking and probing into trans identities, despite being so cut and dry in the minds of the regular posters here?

If you understand irony please go straight to "Answer" below.

[Aside to help those unable, like Exwife, to appreciate irony:

You are overreacting Poulo to
accuse mumsnetters of".. demonising, deriding, mocking and probing into trans people's identities."

Show me some concrete examples of this Poulo.

What we are doing here on mn is

(1) Applying blame where it is due (eg Mermaids person having her offspring seen to)

aka demonising;

(2) Bringing attention to victimist claptrap (eg you misgendered me! It's literal violence!)

aka deriding;

Calling out fantasist ramblings - soon to be incorporated into English law as man becomes woman (eg a transwomen has a period)

aka mocking, and

(4) Practising critical thinking regarding trans people's claimed identities (as before, soon to be made law) (eg I am a woman with a lady willy" or, worse, "That so called terf bigot lesbian won't fuck me even though I'm a real woman with a Clit-on-a-stick and everything : woe is me")

aka probing into trans identities.

Actually I think I'll start a new thread with that thanks for the inspiration Poulo and Exwife! !]

Answer:
This is necessary Poulo because it will destroy female-only spaces, put our teenage girls at risk, destroy women's sport, invalidate crime statistics, cost taxpayers millions of pounds building new "women's" prisons...

[thebewilderness]

Sorry, Ekphrasis, it means "I hate women".

[thebewilderness]

I have to do a lot of brain gymnastics to actually work out what the fuck the word feminazi actually means. And I'm still jumping through the hoops. Wtf does it mean?

The term Feminazi was coined by Rush Limbaugh the hate radio talker. They used to pay him millions to lie about all the people he hates, and he pretty much hates every decent human being in the country. A few years ago women started the "Flush Rush" campaign and now they don't pay him quite so much and his audience is smaller but he still hates every decent human being on the planet.

Personally I prefer Feminazgûl.

[Terfulike]

Exwife there is nothing to backpedals

[CharlieParley]

The first time I was called transphobic was for liking (!) a tweet by a post-op transsexual saying it was detrimental to both the physical and mental health of trans people to insist on actually being the other sex.

exWife
I'm not a holier than thou person. The ridiculous is there to be ridiculed. The idiotic pains me, in myself and others, so I call it out. The dangerous must be counter-acted.

I don't believe in gender identity and my right not to hold a belief and not to aquiesce to its followers is enshrined in law.

I'll give you an example. My wonderful friend happens to be very very religious. I am a militant atheist who was brought up in a country with an extremely strict separation of religion and state.

So when my son came home from school very upset because the Gideon's Bible people had been in school and thrust a bible upon him against his wishes, I complained in no uncertain terms to the headmaster as to how he thought he had the right to allow religious fanatics access to my child without my permission.

Turned out my friend had organised it. Words were had with the school, the Gideon's Bible people and my friend (we're still friends btw.).

What none of them seemed to understand though is that their behaviour is as unacceptable as it would be for me to me to hand out 300 copies of Dawkin's The God Delusion to the kids at school. Because it is none of my fucking business what someone else's kid believes or doesn't believe. And it's none of theirs what my kid believes.

Don't shove your belief down my throat and I'm happy for you to believe in aliens, reincarnation or the gender fairy. Encroach on my life with your belief and I am going to push back. Hard.

That still doesn't mean I hate trans people just like I do not hate my friend for loving god so much she wants everyone to follow suit.

(I do hate it when people abuse the English language though. The way transphobia is used is completely illogical.)

[exWifebeginsat40]

sorry, terfulike, i can’t hear you over the sound of your massive back-pedalling.

[FredNerk]

I wonder how much slack would be allowed if TiFs piled pressure on gay men in the way TiMs do to gay women? Why is it not seen for the homophobia that it is? Why is it OK to try to deny lesbians the right to be solely attracted to women? If gay men had that "you're being exclusionary" bullshit directed at them they'd soon realise how homophobic and rapey it is. "How dare you not be attracted to me!"

TiFs can’t exert the same pressure TiMs do (try as they might) because they’re women trying to exert pressure on men. The whole weight of socialisation is against them. Some gay men who are caught up in this queer-pomo-be-a-good-ally nonsense get guilted into playing along, but for the most part men don’t have any hesitation in refusing people they’re not interested in, especially when those people are women. TiFs are not a physical threat to men the way TiMs are to women. I have never heard of a TiF beating or raping or killing a gay man. There are many, many instances of TiMs doing so to women, though - especially if those women are lesbians.

Denying women sexual boundaries, and denying lesbians their very orientation (even denying it exists) goes back millennia, and this is just another example of how everyone knows TiMs are male. Men forcing themselves on women who say no is par for the course in rape culture, which is what we all live in. The idea that women exist whose lives and orientations revolve around other women - women to whom men are an irrelevance - outrages men as a class. They’re not going to be upset by these attacks. (Nor, sadly, are many homophobic women.) And gay men are part of the misogyny and dismissals of lesbians that runs through society. They’re no less misogynistic than straight or bi men. They’re no less indifferent or actively hostile to lesbians, no less ready to throw them under the bus, in too many cases. Sometimes they were misled by the existence of old-school trans, the homosexual transsexuals, into thinking the gendercultists are the same sort of people. But I doubt there will be any sort of serious help coming from gay men. They are, first and last, men, and not the proncipal targets of the trans activists (mostly straight men, autogynephiles) by any means.

Juells, I hope I didn’t go all literal and write all this yes-everyone-knows-this screed in response to rhetorical frustration!

[LangCleg]

I have to do a lot of brain gymnastics to actually work out what the fuck the word feminazi actually means. And I'm still jumping through the hoops. Wtf does it mean?

It means a female who says no to a male.

Which is why it's so popular with both groups. It's no coincidence that IW was a fag paper away from saying feminazi in that latest article. Bit of an oops what a giveaway if you ask me.

[Ekphrasis]

I have to do a lot of brain gymnastics to actually work out what the fuck the word feminazi actually means. And I'm still jumping through the hoops. Wtf does it mean?

[Ekphrasis]

minds so open the brains fell out

Actually laughed out loud, thanks, going to use this in the future!

[FredNerk]

Yep. If I don't give a fuck when an extremist MRA calls me a feminazi, I'm not sure why I should give one when an extremist TRA calls me a transphobe. No difference - it's coming from exactly the same place.

All my fucks are used up caring about women and children. This is not likely to change any time soon.

Same here, Lang. Only reason I would care about the term is for its potential to be followed by their other favourite pastime - male violence against women.

[LaSqrrl]

Scrolling back up to: Havoc: Words and phrases like transphobic, bigot and "on the wrong side of history" indicate that the person is just parroting something they have heard, rather than really thought the issue through and made up their own minds.

Oh this is so it!

But more than that, it is just laziness and trendiness! These are just signifiers, that "I am so cool, I am up with current debate", when really, they have analysed jackshit. Like the SF Library exhibition. No actual thinking person would have curated that rather obvious display of violence to another group (baseball bats... hello!). Yet they think they are "on the right side of history". Librarians, overwhelmingly female. They are clueless as to where they actually are framed within that 'activism' (clue: it is not on the male side, if you cross them).

But eventually, most of these women 'wake up' and hit 'peak trans'. By then, most of the damage to women's rights, their very own rights, will have been done. I abhor the stupid. Wake up women, you are working against yourselves, and your rights.

[Juells]

I wonder how much slack would be allowed if TiFs piled pressure on gay men in the way TiMs do to gay women? Why is it not seen for the homophobia that it is? Why is it OK to try to deny lesbians the right to be solely attracted to women? If gay men had that "you're being exclusionary" bullshit directed at them they'd soon realise how homophobic and rapey it is. "How dare you not be attracted to me!"

[LangCleg]

just another in the long, long line of “burn the witch” rhetoric used by the oppressor class - men - against the oppressed class - women

Yep. If I don't give a fuck when an extremist MRA calls me a feminazi, I'm not sure why I should give one when an extremist TRA calls me a transphobe. No difference - it's coming from exactly the same place.

All my fucks are used up caring about women and children. This is not likely to change any time soon.

[FredNerk]

“Transphobia!!!” is usually the cry of the autogynephile when lesbians refuse to be coerced into sex, or when women generally speak about our lives and our bodies. It’s a shorthand term for “be silent, woman,” for the most part. It does get turned against men (see straight TiFs complaining about gay men not being sexually available to them, for example) but it’s more often just another in the long, long line of “burn the witch” rhetoric used by the oppressor class - men - against the oppressed class - women.

[Rufustheconstantreindeer]

Oh and i meant to say that thats a really interesting post Ophelia

So maybe there should be homophobia and homoism

Ds1 called me homophobic the other day (another joke there) I'm gonna tell him it should be homoist

As soon as he wakes up...actually i might not wait for him to wake up, I'll just go in his bedroom and yell it, i love the look of confusion on his face

(Another joke if anyone is wondering)

[Rufustheconstantreindeer]

madbad

Its early, i have a coffee so give me half and hour and i will see if i can become transphobic and whip up some hate for you

(ex wife... that was a joke as i am not transphobic and i dont hate transpeople , or anyone really)

[MadBadDaddy]

[Terfulike]

My post you refer to was heavily ironic, Exwife. I'm sorry you didn't notice that.

Perhaps you didn't even notice that the section of my post, which you omitted, was cut and pasted directly from an earlier post by Poulo. You, like me, seem to have found it to be an extremely inaccurate representation of the feminist chat here, and to which Paulo was referring.
A bit like when Tras represent someone's misgendering of them as"literal violence": whatever. Whatever they want to describe and decry our feminist chat as, I was merely answering the question posed...with irony Exwife...with Irony
With irony Exwife.

[thebewilderness]

Every day a new ratfucker arrives to play gotcha.

The thing is that now that transgender advocates and spokes persons have declared women's rights to be anti trans as well as the MRAs long held position that women's rights are anti men this battle in the war on women will be easily seen for what it is by all.
They should have left the children out of it. Then they would likely have gotten away with rolling back women's rights and some women would have cheered them for it.

[Ereshkigal]

Yes ExWife. We've never been criticised before on FWR. That's literally never happened.