How to know if a male feminist is really a feminist

[Mamakiks]

I've been seeing a new guy for a few months. After a miserable and unequal marriage I'm trying to keep my eyes wide open and not get bowled over by emotions and I think I'm doing ok so far. He talks the talk of a feminist and we don't spend enough time together in environments that I'd be able to see if he walks the walk too, as it's mainly at home that inequality occurs in relationships.
Are there any signs I can watch out for, to catch out even the most practised fake feminist?! Apologies if this sounds really cynical, he is very lovely, but I never again want to find myself in an unequal relationship.

[Mamakiks]

Yes I would agree with that being a biggie qumquat and will look out for it a little more. Anyone willing to change their mind on any topic has a level of maturity that I like and respect.

[qumquat]

Is he willing to change his mind on things? This is a Biggie for me. My partner didnt 'get' feminism when we got together but he listened to me and discussed things with me and his knowledge and opinions have developed and he's become a strong feminist ally (not that he'd ever describe himself in those terms). Sadly now an ex for unrelated reasons but he'll make a fab partner to the right woman.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Both my husbands loved and respected their mothers. One was a spoiled Golden Boy. The present MrPratchett is not. It's the relationship with DM not necessarily how they treat their DM.

[ohfortuna]

I agree I think it's an oxymoron

[Titsywoo]

"If you want an idea of how a man will treat you, watch how he behaves with his mother."

I've heard this before - thing is I've had boyfriends who were amazing with their mums but were complete arseholes. DH did not get on well with his mother when we met (because of her infidelity which badly affected his childhood). So this doesn't always mean he is a good guy!

[Mamakiks]

Well I certainly don't want to mould to anyone else's life!

[overnightangel]

@Mamakiks you sound like all you’re interested in is moulding someone to your life
All the best

[Mamakiks]

He has two exes that I know about, one he's quite nice about, the other cheated on him and he's less nice about, although I asked him once if there was any truth in what she'd apparently said to him about him neglecting her and he said yes there was and he regretted that.
He speaks very highly of both his parents and his siblings especially sister but not so much sister in law, which I've challenged him about.
He is the boss at his work but he's quite new and doesn't seem to think much of the previous boss who "left things in a mess" which I'm always a bit about because it sounds a bit arrogant.
Tei he has said something very similar to your line "I try to be aware of how men mistreat women, and I do my best to avoid those things" which I quite liked. He also listens quietly when I have the occasional rant and remembers things I've said in the rant and refers back to them in a way that shows me he's open to learning.
I don't know...maybe I should just enjoy getting to know him and see what happens. I'm holding back at the moment because I don't want to risk getting attached and then him showing his true misogynistic colours!

[DJBaggySmalls]

Anyone can say they are a feminist; there isnt a set standard to meet.
Read Gavin de Beckers book The Gift of Fear. It teaches you red flags to look out for; and there are a couple of websites that list them as well. Far more useful imo.

How does he talk about his ex, or a boss at work he doesnt like?

[TeiTetua]

In a way I think it's better for a man to say as little as possible, though not "I have no idea what feminism is all about"! Perhaps "I try to be aware of how men mistreat women, and I do my best to avoid those things" would be OK. When a man talks about his role as a feminist, even an ally, I start to wonder if he's imposing his own ideas of what it means.

One thing I've heard as sort of folk wisdom is "If you want an idea of how a man will treat you, watch how he behaves with his mother." Or maybe get him to say something about past relationships he's had. Even if those obviously didn't last, he'd seem like a better person if he can keep some kind of respect for a woman he's been intimate with.

[QuentinSummers]

Yes - the book is how not to be a boy

[Mamakiks]

I totally agree remember, and this is what I am hyper aware of while evaluating this new guy! He does recognise that he is privileged and he seems to be supportive of feminist issues - but of course he still benefits and probably has loads of blind spots. He also doesn't have dc so hasn't been tested to that extent yet - I found my ex was all about equality until the day I gave birth.

[rememberthetime]

I find it hard to take a man seriously if he claims to be a feminist. If they claim to support feminism, they still need to tested.

There are very few men who will willingly give up their privilege when they have the opportunity to.

My partner sees himself as supportive of womens issues and realises his privilege and even feels bad about it sometimes. But he still profits from it and it makes his life easier. I love him and see him as better than every other man Ive ever met on this subject - but hes far from perfect.

Lets face it - would many of us give up our privileged status (if we had one)?

All men have profited in one way or another from women and until they pay us back for all that - they can't claim to be feminists.

[Childrenofthestones]

"No male can be a feminist.
They're all as bad as each other, every single fucking one of them."

Thats a quote to remember.

I recently heard somebody saying re Hollywood and me too, that celebrity men self declaring themselves as Feminist probably means you can start the clock to count down until they are exposed as a sex pest.

[TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole]

A 'male feminist' will not describe himself as a feminist, but an ally. Usually a good place to start. Also any discussion of male violence will not be taken as a personal insult to him, and you will not get 'NAMALT!' and such reflex reactions.

[RestingGrinchFace]

Maybe you should work on your personal issues first? You don't want to live with a dick (being a femenist has nothing to do with it, any self respecting misogynist would still be able to clean up after himself) which is fair enough. But you seem a bit paranoid. I don't think that you are really over what happened in your last relationship.

[hollowtree]

Thank you positively

[Elendon]

He had me banned twice from CIF. My claim to fame!

[SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed]

I used to know Ally Fogg's wife. I'll say no more.

[cuirderussie]

Ally is a mansplainy MRA dick, I remember him on Guardian CIF. Like a lot of brocialists :-(

[Elendon]

Anyone remember Ally Fogg?

Don't bother googling him as his website always brings problems up for my computer.

He talks the talk regarding female feminism, but on his terms only - naturally. He's more invested in men and violence against them. Whilst I appreciate this, he is an advocate for ending violence against men, he seems to attract MRAs.

[Mamakiks]

I think if they could get their dicks out and use it to point out all the things I'm doing wrong and what I should do better, they would. I now have a vision of a man waving his penis and declaring "by the power of penis"

[Mamakiks]

Robert Webb's book - is this How not to be a boy?

[BertrandRussell]

Men can be sincere and enthusiastic supporters of women's rights and many are. But it is presumptuous for a man to call himself a feminist. Which is why any man who really gets it wouldn't use the word about himself. Ally is a good thing to say.

[TinyRick]

'Male feminist'?

Surely that's a dictionary definition of 'Oxymoron'.