IVF, surrogacy, sperm donation, feminism

[loopdeloo]

Firstly, I should say that I have just had a second round of unsuccessful IVF and it looks like this is not going to work out for me and DH, so I am having a lot of emotional and confusing thoughts and I really hope people can bear that in mind if I say something offensive on what is a hugely sensitive topic and please forgive me if I get this wrong.

Because of our situation, we are now being talked to about egg donation (i.e. attempting IVF with another woman's eggs and my DH's sperm). I don't want to do this because it doesn't feel right for me personally for a number of reasons, one of which is it just feels too "Handmaid's" and that I would be a vessel to provide my DH with his own genetic offspring. He completely gets this, and the other reasons that resonate for both of us, and we are looking at adoption instead.

I have two sets of lesbian friends who have children through sperm donation from someone they knew. In one family, the father is involved, in the other he is not, although he is not being kept "anonymous". This has never seemed to be much of a problem to me. I also have one set of gay male friends who have adopted 2 children in the UK and they are wonderful parents and although it has been hard, their experience has really helped DH and I look at adoption positively.

And yet now I have a couple of male gay friends who have decided to go to the US to have a surrogate mother - who will be anonymous to the child - and it is making me feel deeply uncomfortable. The total cost is going to be near on $100k and they are spending time browsing through brochures of women's profiles. As I type, I'm not sure why the cost is relevant and yet it seems to be so I'm going to leave it in the post. This seems even more 'handmaid's' and I can't quite get my head round it.

Is this just a purely irrational and emotional reaction due to my personal struggle with infertility, or is there a feminist issue here? I am aware that I'm all over the shop emotionally at the moment and that there is the potential for great hypocrisy here and I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts and not looking for agreement or sympathy.

[Phineyj]

I have a child conceived through anonymous egg donation.

I can see the arguments for and against. Obviously, I decided I could live with the ethics of it, although it was something I thought long and hard about (DH, not so much).

I will just make the practical point that some may find the UK's laws about right, but they put those of us who can only have a child with egg donation in a difficult position, as they are so much at variance with those in other EU countries. It may not be ethical to travel to another EU country for treatment, but it's not illegal and treatments are much more likely to succeed with younger donors (which you're not going to get in egg-sharing schemes, which are fairly ethically dubious themselves, for reasons already pointed out).

How many people in this situation are likely to say 'oh, I don't want this enough to consider treatment abroad' if they can afford it? I think it's hard to say what you'd do, really, unless you're facing the situation.

Anyway, I wanted to wish you lots of luck, OP, whatever you decide to do, but I think I'd stay out of your friend's business if I were you.

[Bear2014]

I agree that you should probably try to stay out of your friend's business in whatever he and his partner decide to do. Providing what they are doing is legal, it's not up to you to go into lengthy ethical discussions with him. It will be tricky for your friendship but they have to make their own choices themselves.

[Josuk]

OP - your choices and convictions are yours. And the fact that on this specific board you find likeminded people - doesn’t change the fact that not everyone would agree with you.
So - your friends’s choices are their own. And like they shouldn’t judge you for taking away your H’s chance of having a biological offspring -
So you shouldn’t judge them for wanting what they want.
It’s not illegal. In western countries it’s regulated. So - there are many arguments one can put for and against.

In addition to my female friends who used various ways of having their child, I do also know a male gay couple who when that way - via US.
They are great parents to their twins.

Putting out unrealistic suggestions of finding altruistic donors and surrogates in the UK is, frankly, disingenuous.
And suggesting that they shouldn’t aspire to have biological children of their own - given the rate of scientific development - is just wrong on so many levels.

[loopdeloo]

I have been through a series of natural miscarriages followed by failed IVF. I have experienced first hand what a lot of well-meaning twats will tell you from the cosy comfort of their own situation (e.g. telling you they couldn't consider adopting or IVF and would be perfectly happy with their fulfilled life without children, whilst also telling you how wonderful it is to have children).

I did start this thread by making it clear that I was all over the shop at the moment - not least because I still have a truckload of hormones in my system - and am well aware that I could do a full 180 any time soon on egg donation.

So, please, do not assume I am so lacking in emotional intelligence that I would handle this in the way the last few messages have suggested, nor that I am so feeble-minded I'd be solely guided by MN, nor assume that I judge other people for making different choices from me if they have fully thought it through, nor that my friend does not actively want to talk to me about the ethical nature of the choices he and I are both facing right now and expect my full involvement from start to finish - I would rather take the easy option right now but that is not what the dynamic of our friendship is.

[GuardianLions]

op I think it is okay to say you feel uncomfortable with the ethics of your friends' choices. And when people say what they are doing is perfectly legal it isn't true. It is not legal in the UK, so they are going to a country with less ethical surrogacy laws than the UK, to take advantage of their unethical laws and create a designer baby from a brochure of women presented like prostitutes - human female organs for rent/sale, and a baby for sale.
Although your friends' pain and frustration are understandable, you can say that their choice makes you feel uncomfortable and they are free to disagree. At least it will be out in the open. If you don't say anything, if they do create the baby and bring her or him home, it is unlikely that you'll be able to stay friends with all that pain on your chest.

[QuentinSummers]

Very wise response from guardian

op sorry if I upset you. Obviously we don't know the type of friendship or your strength of feeling about this. Try not to take random internet people's comments to heart

[Dozer]

I think egg donation for discounted fertility treatment is ethically dubious because many women donating will desperately want and not otherwise be able to afford the fertility treatment.

Altruistic egg donation is different, but presents some health risks to the donor, and with both egg and sperm donations risks that even when told the truth from a young age the DC may have negative emotions and experiences resulting from being the child of a donor, especially if anonymous.

I have a friend who had IVF with an egg donor known to her (altruistic donation). She carried and gave birth to, breastfed the baby and is enjoying motherhood very much. She and her H tried the route to parenthood because they wanted their best chance of a baby with no SN or additional needs.

Adoption is very, very much more challenging for parents. Many DC will have been through trauma, or had biological mothers using alcohol or substances while pregnant. Friends, for example, adopted a baby who, itgradually became clear, has severe fetal alcohol syndrome and very high needs.

I can understand why your wealthy friends wish to have their best chance of a healthy baby, and indeed why they think compensation to a young, educated US woman is OK. Agree with you that it’s unethical, but not to the extent that I’d raise this with the friends.