I am Janice Turner's No 1 fan - another excellent article

[Stopmakingsense]

This one picks up in particular the huge rise in women identifying as men, and the increasing inability of anyone being able to question it:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-asking-questions-is-now-transphobic-ztk3rlrfk?shareToken=1f64a5116171eb54a9a866590e6432ec

[thecatfromjapan]

It's not just about sexual attention, though, or even just adulthood. Taking on a woman's body also often means taking on the second-class social, cultural, political positions an adult woman's body takes on. Or perhaps that should be, 'threatens to involve'.

[NoLoveofMine]

I do think the school mentioned in the article - St Paul's Girls' School - is being quite irresponsible in endorsing girls "identifying as boys" and insisting all pupils and teachers refer to them with male pronouns and so on. A girls' school should be challenging gender stereotypes and freeing pupils from them, not perpetuating them as I feel they are with their approach.

[qumquat]

It's interesting to me as well the way the no. of trans teenagers seems to correlate with class/culture. I know of teachers in other private girls' schools dealing with similar issues to St Paul's. I teach in a state girls' school where most students are first or second generation immigrants from Africa and it does not seem to be on their radar.

[QueenLaBeefah]

Surely if girls identify as boys then they shouldn't be in a girls school? Or am I missing something here?

[NoLoveofMine]

I haven't been aware of this happening at my school although the Feminist Society as I've posted before is fully supportive of TRAs it seems (or others who disagree are the same as a friend and I and don't want to challenge this line lest we be accused of transphobia). I also know of another girls' school near where I live which a couple of friends attend where it's not taken hold as it has at St Paul's.

Indeed QueenLaBeefah. Their policy is that from the age of 16, girls are able to identify as boys, be called "he", which all pupils and teachers then have to abide by. It's baffling in my opinion and I think potentially quite damaging to younger years.

[qumquat]

Well quite. But no-one is chucking them out of the schools. It's almost as if they know they're not really boys...

[NoLoveofMine]

It's one thing to deal with these issues if they arise and offer support - I can very much empathise with wanting to avoid the unwanted attention, street harassment and risk of male violence girls are at - but to actually legitimise and perpetuate the notion some girls are really boys is quite irresponsible and damaging I think.

[WorkingItOutAsIGo]

Excellent article yet again by Janice. Am so impressed by her bravery.

On the topic of St Paul's I think it is worth reading what the school actually said. As a gender critical parent at the school I was very worried when this was announced in the media especially as there had been no communication to the wider parent body. But I think the school has been very sensible and cautious and done the minimum it is required to do and very much with the girls' mental health in mind. www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/london-school-girl-pupils-gender-neutral-identify-male-st-pauls-public-school-a7589701.html%3famp

The school was careful to say it could only teach girls. It was careful to insist on parental consultation. It was careful to allow nothing permanent - exam certificates for example are in the natal name. It really came down to an acceptance of name changing and pronoun use - pupils there already wear what they like and there is no uniform. It is a relatively small number of girls I understand - less than 10 from two years of sixth formers which must be around 250 girls. My sense was they are mostly rejecting notions of binary gender rather than wanting to transition to male. I also have a sense it is generally girls who had been out as lesbian beforehand, so it does make me sad for young lesbians that they are facing this issue at present and being erased by what I see as a deeply homophobic ideology. So in fact I was surprised to find I actually supported the SPGS gentle approach on this one.

[NoLoveofMine]

It really came down to an acceptance of name changing and pronoun use

Name changing I have no issue with as really there's no reason names should be specific to sex but I think the pronoun use is ridiculous. Younger girls at the school will be aware of this and are being given the idea that girls who have certain interests, personalities etc are really boys. From what I've heard some girls are claiming to be "non-binary" and some to be boys (I know someone who attends the school). I'd be pretty wound up if this started happening at my school (though wouldn't be surprised if it did at some point).

[WorkingItOutAsIGo]

Nolove- I totally agree with you about pronoun use - as I said I am gender critical - but the point is that this is happening in your school, it is happening everywhere. Schools have no power to stop it and the situation will only get worse. It was with that I mind that I was pleased SPGS put such strong boundaries in place and such limits. I would expect the school to face a legal challenge on them at some point precisely because they have been so restrictive and so clear they will only teach girls, not transgirls or transboys.

[retreatwhispering]

Another great article. Turner is pretty brave. I hate to imagine the kind of abuse she must be getting.

Well done Chrome. That radio play has raised my blood pressure every morning this week. I was meaning to write too.

[NoLoveofMine]

I agree it seems this will continue WorkingItOut which is another reason people like Janice Turner covering it is so vital. It's the perpetuating the idea girls can really "feel like boys" which bothers me in the case of St Paul's, as I said I think girls' schools should be fighting gender stereotyping (as I feel mine does) not pandering to this kind of thing, though of course appreciate your view as a parent of someone there who knows more than me!

[Stopmakingsense]

This is my letter to Woman's Hour re Just a Girl drama:

Your drama last week presented a one-sided view of the current transgender debate - I.e. that there is a biological cause and people are born with a 'female brain in a male body', or vice versa. I look forward to equal weight being given to alternative views, that the feeling of being born in the wrong body can step from a host of psychological difficulties. In particular, I hope Woman's Hour will investigate the huge rise in teenage girls and young adult women identifying as male, and a society that appears to be condoning the surgical alteration and chemical castration of individuals who do not conform to sex role stereotypes.

[aaahhhBump]

Found this blog discussing the difficulties of reversing the trans process and the difficulties in discussing regrets.

thirdwaytrans.com

[theendisnotnigh]

Fantastic article!
One of the reasons that St Paul's school is so accepting is because teachers have been 'taught' about transgender issues by groups run by activists. Look at the training offered to schools - GIREs is an example. Buried in some good work on prejudice and acceptance are the usual incorrect statistics about suicide and a number of clear statements articulating why puberty blockers should start at the beginning of puberty - so 10 year olds who have started their periods? The long term outcomes for these children will be catastrophic. The age of consent is 16 but not if you want to change your sex?

Teachers dare not challenge this misinformation as to do so will have been nailed as 'transphobic'. And if any school safeguarding officer dares refer a 12 year old on puberty blockers to social services - well the social workers are likely to have been trained by the same activist groups!

It is unthinkable (but true) that a school's transgender policy appears to outweigh their safeguarding policy - unheard of when a school can fail an Ofsted for safeguarding failings .

[AssignedPerfectAtBirth]

Great article. Never thought I'd subscribe to the Times, but keen to support Janice. Brave lady for speaking up.

What do you think of this article?

www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/2017/08/14/a-real-shame-company-house-closing-after-months-of-harassment-says-owner.html

[Blanchefleur]

Another great article from Janice. So good to see The Times reporting on this.

I'm staggered to see that a university would deem ground-breaking research to be unacceptable because it might be 'politically incorrect'. WTAF? This is academic research we are talking about, not someone using the wrong pronoun in a 'safe space'.

Once again, I am wondering at just who is behind all this, as they are frighteningly powerful.

[Stopmakingsense]

For anyone interested in how scary things are looking for gender non-conforming children and young adults, this post in particular highlights one aspect - all the posts in the blog are worth reading.

www.transgendertrend.com/cps-schools-project-the-erasure-of-sex-and-the-silencing-of-girls/

[SparkyBlue]

Excellent article. Thanks for posting OP.

[partystress]

Gosh, if the blog in Stopmakingsenses post is accurate, I am even more concerned about just how much political traction this has got. Surely anything destined for use in schools must be scrutinised for equality impact? How can that scenario about toilets not have rung massive alarm bells? How have these people (whoever they are) got government bodies in such a terrified state that they churn out this stuff so unthinkingly?

[DJBaggySmalls]

thecatfromjapan Sat 23-Sep-17 10:55:45
Is that a derail, I sense?

No, I was not attempting to derail the thread. A school was known for having a lot of female students who are anorexic, now it has a lot of female students who identify as trans. That has not triggered any kind of enquiry. It doesnt seem to have created any kind of lightbulb moment for the school or anyone else.

[TheWeeWitch]

There is some tweet activity between Robert Webb and a gender critical activist called Lily Maynard. Webb has just released a book so is engaging with lots of gender-centric banter on twitter.

Best bits here:

twitter.com/arobertwebb/status/911545666425548805

twitter.com/lilylilymaynard/status/911541860488933381

twitter.com/lilylilymaynard/status/911543053462245376

[TheWeeWitch]

Here’s Lily’s blog where she tells the story of her own daughter’s period of transition. She uses the word cult. Strong but true I fear.

4thwavenow.com/2016/12/17/a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia-helps-her-daughter-desist/amp/

[Ereshkigal]

Wow that's great from Robert Webb, supporting Lily Maynard, who is fabulous.

[Iris65]

One trans friend of theirs had a small gang of friends who were also now identifying as trans or non binary or this that and the other. They remarked that one clearly had diagnosed mental health issues and was clutching at the trans label for a solution. I was impressed that they'd identified all this for themselves already. But they also said they wouldn't say too much about it at school / uni because of the bigot label.

I also have personal experience of this both within an educational setting and with an acquaintance.

I find the idea of anorexia having a similar function very interesting too.