Gender Pay Gap and Gender Identity

[Seeingadistance]

Waking up angry!

I wake up to Radio 2 as my alarm, and this morning woke up to the 7.30am news bulletin in which I heard that female presenters in the BBC have written an open letter about BBC pay which has confirmed what they have long suspected - a huge disparity between the salaries of male and female.

Then, fucking then, I hear that the Government is proposing to make it easier to change one's gender identity legally!

Oh for fuck's sake!

Well, maybe the juxtaposition will show this up for how fucking ridiculous it is.

[venusinscorpio]

This thread is like a lightning rod.

[OlennasWimple]

Of course there isn't a gender pay gap, it's just our fluffy pink lady brains don't understand the numbers so have gotten ourselves all confused

[Datun]

Indeed M0stly.

That recent thread about sexism at work and the hundreds of women who say they are passed over for promotion, paid less, had to leave and take a pay cut, because of the misogyny, the woman who was targeted by HR for being 'unprofessional' as she had a period pain at work and was told to go home, the woman who was told she had to make the tea, despite it not being her job because she was a woman, the ideas nicked from women by men, the woman who when she told the panel her DH would be sharing the childcare, they laughed because they didn't believe it. It goes on and on. But women have a equality at work, right?

Perhaps I imagined that thread and the dozens of others like it.

Or perhaps this attitude to women never, ever translates into any negative financial outcome, whatsoever?

[nocoolnamesleft]

I don't think there's a gender pay gap. I do think that there's a sex pay gap. The difference is important, as part of the gap is due to different biological constraints.

[NewRug]

winifred no I am. It making stuff up.

Me and my partner worked for the same (global corporate law firm).

I get paid more than my partner, always have done. We are at different points in our careers.

On a statutory level, we must get paid the same when it comes to time off for maternity/paternity.

The maternity package at the firm was 90% of a typical monthly salary for 6 months, then statutory pay up to the statutory time limit. You got the difference 10% for the first 6 months back in a return to work bonus, if you returned from maternity and stayed continuously employed for x months.

My partner was offered just statutory, even if I went back to work within the 6 months.

It's very legal to do that.

I took just 6 months maternity leave.

I was very lucky to have a very good maternity package, unfortunately the men in the company didn't get the same.

I wouldn't like to see women's maternity packages reduced, but if we want men to consider taking up longer term paternity leave, we ought to pay them for it equally to women..

[VestalVirgin]

(As an aside the most dangerous profession in the world is probably prostitution.)

Yes, it is interesting how the men who'd be the first to talk of "sex workers" and it being "a job like any other" never bring it up when talking of dangerous professions.

I don't consider prostitution a profession, and because of that would not list it among dangerous professions.

[Jijhebtseksmetezels]

With the new Gender Identity Bill maybe Claudia Winkleman can identify as male and get an extra 2 million!

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

So our government is concerned about the gender pay gap and is trying to do something about it

But Ethan is proving that it doesn't exist

Have i got that right?

Well in that case ethan should contact number 10 and tell them all about it

[WinifredAtwellsOtherPiano]

Newrug don't just make stuff up. Women who've given birth do get 6 weeks at 90% of pay which is unique to them, (to facilitate recovery from labour and bf otherwise women would be forced back to work for financial reasons whilst physically unfit but the remaining 33 weeks can be taken by either parent at exactly the same pay rate. The reason why few men take it is because of course they're paid more.

[AlternativeTentacle]

As an aside the most dangerous profession in the world is probably prostitution

Which they ALL made an executive choice to enter, natch.

[Jijhebtseksmetezels]

The gender pay gap deniers see everything in terms of individual choice but fail to dig deep into the real problem. They need to ask the following questions:

• why do women choose low paid caring professions?
  

• why is it the wife who usually chooses to go part-time in order to take on the lion's share of childcare and housework?
  

• why are housework and childcare not seen as "working"?
  

• why do caring professions get paid less than other professions that are not as crucial to the common good?
  

-why do fewer girls than boys choose STEM careers even though they perform just as well in related exams?

• should women be financially penalised for raising children when such a job is essential to our future?
  

• why do women not have the confidence to negotiate higher salaries and would they be successful if they tried to?
  

Look behind the simple rhetoric of choice to see what really is behind the decisions that send us off on such divergent paths and you'll see the effects of capitalism, patriarchy and biology.


(As an aside the most dangerous profession in the world is probably prostitution.)

[AlternativeTentacle]

thats a bold claim, I would like some proof

You mean like the figures recently published by the BBC? That show the huge gender pay gap within just one organisation?

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Sadly, @Seeingadistance, I don't think the juxtaposition will make any difference at all. People are sleepwalking into this self identification of gender identity, and as you can see from this thread there's a determination in some quarters to actively deny there's any problem with pay. Same as it ever was.

I'm pleased that the women who wrote that letter felt able to do so. I fear that by this time next year plenty of stars will be paid via production companies instead of directly by the BBC and this pay disparity will be hidden instead of resolved.

[Shenanagins]

Part time workers typically are in the lower paid roles, it's rare for this to be offered at senior levels.

However, if only comparing full-time females with part-time females there is a gap as well.

[NewRug]

@ethan in the same way some one could take some statics and see women being payed more than men.

Childcare for example, we have one male member of staff in our private preschool, everyone else including management and the owner are women. Guess which sex is being paid more if you took an average and divided it by biological sex...

Any statistician would see this an an anomaly, men are disproportionately represented in childcare.

Due to cultural reasons.

Unfortunately though women are disproportionately represented in the work place, this is also due to cultural reasons, and a whole of,stupid reasons, mainly made up by men. Because men don't look after children. They work. Simple fact.

This disproportionate is echoed in our laws, how can it be equal for a women to get say 60% of her salary for maternity, and a man who wants to chose to take extended paternity get just £130 per week (or what ever the going rate is)

femisim is about equality, I would fight as much to get fair parternity pay as I would to get better maternity pay.

There are many many many reasons why stastics don't paint a true picture of what is truly happening to women, eroding women's rights by saying anyone can become one, isn't the answer.

[SylviaPoe]

Shenanagins, are there specific laws or policies on parity between full time and part time workers?

[ethan01]

@Shenanagins

I totally understand. I'm not asking you to do that, I just mean that I cant believe stuff without evidence. Don't get me wrong though, i am not calling you a liar.

[ethan01]

finished one response*

I dont know how i made such a big typo there lol

[ethan01]

Too many people are replying here lol. Before i have intensified once response there is like 3 new ones, and with all that plus all the straw mans it makes it impossible to tackle every point. If someone wants a civil debate DM and we can talk on skype or something would be much easier.

[Shenanagins]

Ok ethan you win, there isn't anything. I'm not going to divulge confidential information I've obtained through my job just to win an argument on a public forum with someone who can't even read links provided on this thread or even equality cases as reported in the press.

[SylviaPoe]

Girls should certainly look at the hourly pay gaps for different jobs before choosing a career.

[ethan01]

@NewRug
In my first post I say this and explain some of the factors for the disparity in the statistics. However a lot of people lot at the statistics and take from take from it that "a women earns less for the same work as a man". My argument is against the same work argument not the gap in general.

[ethan01]

@Shenanagins

I'm sorry but i'm not going to be convinced by you saying "some are not published for good reason". Then all of a sudden claiming you are have some knowledge of looking at various organisations behind closed doors.

It may be true that you have, but unless I could confirm that, I can't just believe that it true. Just cause someone claims there is this sexism somewhere out there in the ether holding all women down, it does not mean it exists. Don't get me wrong though, if you can show that this is happening, I agree, it is bad and I will happily fight the cause with you.

As of now however no one has shown otherwise.