Can I be proud of DD here please?!

[NotTodaySatan]

It was DD's 7th party last week and it was at hell a soft play.

At the end of the disco the party organiser asked the girls and boys to split into groups to receive their party bags.

DD asked (politely): Excuse me, why are there separate bags for girls and boys?

Party Host: Umm. Because that's just how it is (me: ).

DD: well it's wrong. Girls might want to play with the toys in the boys bags and boys might want to play with the the toys in the girls bags. It's gender stereotyping.

Party host: Nothing.

Then one of DD's friends, clutching the fashion related toy from her bag said "Boys don't play with fashion toys" with a grimace.

DD: Of course they do. There are lots of male fashion designers. Don't be silly.

I'm proud of her .

[NotTodaySatan]

DD certainly is precocious if you go by the primary meaning.

: (of a child) having developed certain abilities or inclinations at an earlier age than is usual or expected.

But despite certain posters projecting to silly degrees, she wasn't rude or confrontational and she didn't "lecture" anyone. She just saw something she thought was wrong and called it out. That's exactly the type of person I'm trying to raise .

[NeverEverAnythingEver]

Well done satan's DD.

(That came out a bit strange )

[tootsietoo]

But god it gets so dull and frustrating being non-confrontational all the time. Most of us have to wait until we're old and wear purple before we are brave enough to shout about the rubbish. Not Satan's DD! And anyway, she sounds quite polite, not shouty!

[MrsFionaCharming]

Shame about your DDs Guide unit Feet, but did you know that as a Guide, she can get 2-4-1 tickets to see Suffragette?

new.girlguiding.org.uk/latest-updates/opportunities-with-girlguiding/2-for-1-suffragette-film-cinema-ticket-offer

[scallopsrgreat]

Oh give over Bubbletree. You wrote something a little bit mean about a 7 yr old girl and got called out on it. You'd get a similar response in AIBU or any other section to a post other people disagreed with. In fact in certain other sections the disagreement would probably be more robust!

And you know what maybe she did put the adult on the spot. Why is that a bad thing? Should we not question things because some people may not relish it?

[shovetheholly]

"Feminists do set the cause back by being confrontational and moaning about inconsequential things. Just like any argument is weakened by that behaviour. I frequently find the feminist section on MN to be rude, aggressive and looking for ways to be professionally offended."

Sorry, I didn't realise you were the sole arbiter of what is considered to be 'consequential' or not, and of what was 'reasonable' for someone to be offended at or not.

See thread on female anger, btw, where the gendered nature of this is discussed at some length.

[SleepyForest]

My dd is having to go to church for a year to get in to our local school (40 hours of Sunday school in return for four years of walking across the road instead of bussing to the next town). Last week they were separated into nurses and soldiers. Dd pointed out that there shouldn't be any gender bias in these groups. The idiot leading her class insisted that nurses are girls and girls can't be soldiers.

I think she was very polite considering. Why is it that some people can't accept that sometimes the child is right and the adult is a fool? I proved this last night during dds maths homework .

[iPaid]

Bubbletree is spot on. OP's daughter was rude. I would have been embarrassed if my DD - a self-proclaimed feminist at the age of 10 - had acted that way at a party.

[NotTodaySatan]

No she wasn't rude Ipaid and given that, y'know, I was actually there and you weren't you're gonna have to accept my word on that .

It's not automatically rude for a child to question something an adult has said. That's a pretty Victorian attitude.

[shovetheholly]

To turn that argument on its head, you could say it was unreasonable (and discriminatory) of the party organiser to produce gender-specific party bags. It's 2015, for gawdssake, and I'd like to think that firstly, there's a bit of an obligation to be egalitarian in our public practices (particularly around young children), and secondly, that we can all be self-reflective enough to accept questioning of those practices in the name of equality, even if that questioning is out of the mouths of babes.

Sometimes I feel like there is this assumption that any questioning is a rude denunciation that lasts for all time. It's not. We can all be wrong sometimes. We can all do and say things that we haven't thought through, and a bit of gentle prodding is sometimes needed to make us think!

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Well done that girl!
My ds asked me if he was as clever as hermione granger and is currently hero worshipping Ellen MacArthur thanks to the brilliant school project on explorers wish it didn't include Christopher Columbus but we found a YouTube video about slavery and it doesn't seem to have crossed his mind that these are women he is emulating rather than just clever and brave people. Long may it last!

[feetheart]

I did wonder how long it would take for the celebration of our fair-minded, articulate girls to attract the 'how rude' brigade. Sadly not long :(
In my mind there is a world of difference between calling something out because it's wrong or unfair and rudeness. I can't abide rude children and have gone a long way to ensure that mine (a girl and a boy) are polite and well-mannered. However we have also encouraged them to be assertive and articulate and to argue their case if they need to.

MrsFionaCharming - thanks for that link, well done Girl Guiding :)

[NeverEverAnythingEver]

Women should be nice and polite. That's how we got the vote - by sitting at the feet of our masters nicely and waiting till they had time before attracting their attention with a polite "ahem" so that they would deign to look at the tiny inconsequential problem of women being disenfranchised. And we made them sandwiches and cups of tea, no doubt.

How women have to speak.

[NotCitrus]

The dd sounds perfectly reasonable to me - she asked a question and made it more pointed when she got a non-answer. Assuming she wasn't shouting or personally insulting the employee, that's exactly how to make a complaint!

My dd has been heard explaining to her friends that her blue clothes are girl colour because she's a girl, so ner, but for a 3yo that's reasonable. Trying to instil some tact into ds age 7 (who likes pink, cuddly toys, and thinks football is stupid), but it's not always his fault but other kids relaying him. Apparently it didn't go down well when a couple kids from very religious families reported to their parents "NCds and best mate know everything and they say god is just a story, so there"...

[grimbletart]

Good for OP's dd.

But it just occurred to me (as an oldie) that society has gone backwards in some ways. My daughters are now in their 40s and when we had children's goody bags at parties it never even occurred to us to have boys and girls bags. It just wouldn't.

It seems to be part of the pink glitter phenomenon. Utterly weird.

[ChunkyPickle]

She wasn't rude, she was precocious (but that's not a bad thing - why should she hide her thoughts).

In my experience precocious is used as a put down for any child who doesn't sit quietly and do as they are told, but instead speaks out their opinions and thoughts. Sure we all have had a child somewhere that won't shut up - but that's good, that's enthusiasm (as wearing as it can be) and I think it's terrible to bully it out of a child by calling them precocious as an insult.

I do hate this trope that we'd get what we wanted if we just asked nicely and only concentrated on the important stuff.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Was this the best way for her to effect change, though?

The employee is not likely to go and tell their bosses about gender stereotyping in the party bags - and if they do, will the bosses actually listen?

Maybe she should write to the company who own the venue, to express her feelings on gender stereotyping?

[iPaid]

I did wonder how long it would take for the celebration of our fair-minded, articulate girls to attract the 'how rude' brigade. Sadly not long

And you wonder why so few MNers bother posting in the Feminist section.

I'm not part of any brigade and my DD is fair-minded and articulate. However, maybe because she's nearly 11 now, she would realise there's a better way of dealing with the problem of gender stereotyping. She'd probably come up with the idea suggested by SDTG - writing to the bosses who could effect change.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Well done OP's DD.

Not entirely sure why this myth that woman should never get cross or push for change persists. Or why so people feel the need to perpetuate it on the feminist board.

If all it took was women and girls being all nice and conciliatory to get things done, the world would be equal, gender roles wouldn't exist and everyone would be happy.

[NeverEverAnythingEver]

at the thought of a 7yo coming up with "I think I'll write a letter to the boss". At least we are not suffering from unrealistic low expectations.

[lastuseraccount123]

wow! I LOVE her!!!