Segregation of Female Scientists!

[Sheitgeist]

Started a thread in Chat about this, but no one's noticed.

The Nobel Laureate Tim Hunt has made some ridiculous comments about female scientists:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/10/nobel-scientist-tim-hunt-female-scientists-cause-trouble-for-men-in-labs

He's apologised for causing offence, but says he still means it!

"I suspect its because labs are where he works and he has a slight blind spot re.extrapolating from his experience to others'"

Yup!

This caused much merriment amongst my male and female scientist colleagues yesterday, I know it's not funny at all really, but sometimes something is so shocking it's funny. Most of us (male and female) had encountered sexual shenanigans in the scientific workplace, but surely this is no different to other workplaces. Love the "puts the nob in Nobel" comment.

He may have resigned, but there's no acknowledgement in his "apology" that he has any understanding of where he went wrong. He says he was trying to be humorous and honest.

If women do cry when he gives criticism, it makes me wonder what he's like at giving criticism - is it constructive and helpful, so they can do better in future by learning from mistakes, and with praise being given where it's due? Or just bullying, beating them down all the time? You will probably get the odd one or two who cries, if you are managing people over a long career, but if it's something which happens regularly, I suspect there would be one common factor, and it's not the recipients of the criticism.

And he's clearly missed out on any training on diversity or harassment, if he thought it was appropriate as humour - especially in such a forum; it was hardly down the pub with his lab mates.

If one or two men swear when given criticism, does anyone ever say "you can't criticise men because they swear"? Or are men seen as individuals with individual reactions?

He's probably like an academic I know of who rarely has a post doc last more than six months in his lab as he's so horrible to work for.

Makes me thankful for my PhD supervisor. He says that the women he's had in his lab have been better than the men but the men have done better in academia because they think they're better than they are whereas the women don't live up to their own impossible standards.

Well, I've found a younger picture of him and I take it all back. He's right. How could one resist?

I work with predominantly men. I've witnessed at least two of them in tears (not over anything I said to them I hasten to add). Perhaps men shouldn't be in the worklplace if they continually show these emotions?

I've also witnessed many more of them get very angry even violent in the workplace. Perhaps men shouldn't be there if they can't control their emotions?

I've also witnessed sexual harassment from men in the workplace. Perhaps men shouldn't be there if they can't stop thinking with their dicks?

I've witnessed far too many times to recall men in the workplace being sexist, homophobic, ableist or racist. Perhaps they shouldn't be in the workplace if they are such bigots?

I know! Ridiculous huh! How would workplaces manage without men? We couldn't even countenance the possibility.

I cried once in my first job (through exhaustion, not criticism - late nights were common). Male colleagues regularly slammed the phone down swearing.

Who do you think the (male) manager worried about?

I can't imagine Yonic, really I can't. An understandable reaction to a stressful situation or a temper tantrum? Hmmm. Lets think.

It annoys me anyway that crying is seen as such a big deal when work is often stressful, people aren't always nice to you and outside pressures may not be helping. It just smacks of misogyny for me, because women are more likely to cry as a way of expressing their frustration so it is seen as this Terrible. Thing. To Be. Avoided.

I read an article ages ago that stated that the emotions that women were allowed in the workplace were much more restricted than men. Initially I thought rubbish. But then I thought about all the passive aggressive remarks/sulking, the outbursts, the storming off, the swearing etc and I think that they are probably right. When women do those things it is noticed much much more.

I made a man cry at work once. Which of us needs to leave?

One of my colleagues just sent this round the office!

#distractinglysexy

Depends monsterous

Are you a Nobel Laureate in your field?

Have you been to an international conference in your chosen field and told people that men shouldn't work with you, because you'll make them cry?

Have you, when challenged, gone down the "It was all a joke, can't you take a joke?" route, instead of the "Sorry, I was being a total arse, it won't happen again" route?

If none of the above, neither of you should resign.

Its a fantastic job being a scientist.

Nice rack ? - I'm even fond of those eppendorf tubes.

Back at work today, it turned out that a colleague who was away yesterday was one of his students years ago and knew his wife. Said this had come as a real surprise, he hadn't seemed like this back then. Meanwhile the only tears were of laughter at something completely unrelated. No one fell in love with anyone else over the test tubes either.

Sadly he hasn't resigned from FRS or handed back his Nobel Prize. Apparently he will be asked to resign from FRS committees (as per this comment). But that's not really enough.

I'm wondering who thought it was a good idea to have him speak at that conference?

I don't actually think he should hand back the Nobel. If he'd been caught fiddling his data then yes, but that prize is for the science not for the character of the scientists.

I read that earlier. Some apology.

Why should women be the ones who have to step out of the lab because the men are ''in love" with them.

I agree, Errol.

"They fall in love with you, you fall in love with them"

This is his "trouble with girls" and somehow not a woman's problem that male scientists fall in love with them? (whilst thinking of them as girls)

And what a strange mind set "when you criticize them they cry" - is this his expectation or is it real from his sexist handling of feedback.

And how can a scientist talk about an enormously diverse group as as "them".

A scientist.... oh the irony.

And I'm not sure Errol - if he has such a blind spot and overt bias in this area, it's possible his thinking is similar in other areas.

I don't think they even take Nobel prizes away for convicted criminals, do they?

Yonic Kinda begs the question, have there been any ?....maybe some with road traffic offences ? Also, as in much in life, in order to be fair and just, one needs to take the facts of a case one at a time.

I dunno, cadno. Google is at your disposal, though.

Watson still has his Nobel, and they are retained if a scientist subsequently goes off the rails scientifically - thinking of Linus Pauling.

A thoughtful piece on the more pervasive, subtle sexism bubbling below Tim Hunt's overt bias www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/06/tim-hunt-resignation-science-sexism/395642/?utm_source=SFTwitter