Can you talk to me about marriage?

[NotTheFarmersWife]

I hope no-one minds me posting here. I read a lot, but rarely post in FWR cos the high calibre of poster makes me feel a bit fick but I have no remotely feminist-minded friends or family and I'm winding myself up something chronic with no-one to talk to about this. I thought maybe you smart bunch could help me make sense of my own mind.

DP and I are after setting up a smallholding. We can't afford the outrageous cost of housing in SE, but can't move out of SE because of family etc. So we thought it'd be nice to get a little bit of land, and keep chickens and pigs and what have you. Try for a bit of self-sufficiency. But here's the catch - it's DPs money that will be used to buy the land and animals etc to start with. I don't have a penny to my name and I'm not currently working - and nor will I be, if we go ahead with this - well, I'll be working harder than I ever have before I'm sure - but not for a salary... I would be so very fucked if something happened to him, like a stroke, or a younger woman, you know, the usual suspects.

So I thought, well, we should get married. That would protect me, further down the line, if I'm out of the workplace for fifteen years and then suddenly it all goes tits up and he's gone and whatever else. (I think, anyway?)

But I'm really conflicted about getting married. Part of me doesn't want to, because it's an outdated patriarchal institution, ownership of women, all that jazz. Part of me doesn't want to because DP isn't particularly bothered about getting married. He has said he's quite happy to get married if I want to, but to him it doesn't really mean anything. Hilariously, it doesn't mean a great deal to me in terms of commitment, my parents, grandparents, friends parents etc, all divorced - but I can't stop thinking about that old trope that men who aren't interested in marriage actually are not interested in marrying you, you know? And if I'm completely honest (and I try not to be, when it comes to this sort of thing!), part of me is pretty gutted, actually, that I've borne children for two men but neither has wanted to marry me. Which is possibly the most ridiculous bit I know but hey, social conditioning eh? But anyway the upshot of it all is that it makes me feel hurt and defensive and kind of like, well fuck it I didn't want to get married anyway. I don't know what getting married actually entails but I don't think I can do it when I feel like it's just a bit of a farce on our part. But I know I can't give up any and all paid employment outside of the home if I'm not going to have any real claim to this farm we intend to build.

So maybe I'd be better off going back to "proper" work instead? I don't have great earning potential, I buggered up my education in a big way, and have already taken several years out to raise kids, but I'm not yet thirty and after a few years it should be enough to make some sort of useful contribution to the household, and then if the relationship does flounder, I'm in a much better position to build a single life on.

I have tried to talk to DP but he just says we can do whatever I want/whatever will make me happy, and that I can't keep planning a future without him (I'm not trying to do that, but having had one supposedly-forever relationship crumble, I need to know I'm going to be ok if something does go wrong). My mum said that if I get married I should make sure my hair looks nice and not wear jeans to the registry office. (See what I'm up against) I just don't know what to do. TBH, I'm not even sure what posting here is going to achieve. My sincere apologies if you got all the way through just to realise it was a self-indulgent whinge. I just need to go and get a real job don't I? Or is there some other way? Am I just being a massive twat? (You are welcome to tell me I'm being a massive twat but please do it nicely because I am feeling really fragile generally at the moment and this is a particularly sensitive subject for me)

[NotTheFarmersWife]

I'll get some really hefty boots then yeah?

Yeah I'm definitely not pootling, I promise. We've been idly discussing this for a couple of years and are now rapidly approaching the point at which it can become a reality. It dawned on me a few weeks ago that I'd be making myself incredibly vulnerable and I needed to rectify that. I don't think I mind too much getting married really, we don't have to tell people if we don't want to and it's a cheap and easy means to an end which I think will be a real bugger to sort out otherwise. I was quite concerned about the actual ceremony bit, but pp have put my mind to rest there.

Animal lessons! Yes we are lucky to be quite close to an agricultural college that runs short courses on this sort of thing so I will investigate those more thoroughly nearer the time. We have got some back garden chickens, starting small and working up

No I have no idea what I'd do if I were to train for a proper grown up career. I never have done really. I vaguely wanted to be a hairdresser when I was eleven or twelve but I was at a grammar school and my mum was having none of it.

[FuckOffGroundhog]

do you have any idea what you would like to do?

Ooh ooh be a vet! The you can look after all the animals on your farm

[unclerory]

We live in a patriarchial world, sometimes that means we have to use the protections put in place by the patriarchial world even if we disagree with them.

Get married (for purely practical reasons), make sure there is joint ownership on everything and you've got decent wills in place, get yourself some training in animal husbandry (my father's pet hate was people having a 'smallholding' with no idea about how to look after animals and then the animals dying or being injured because their owners didn't know what they were doing), split the farm work between you (retraining yourself for something else is a good idea, do you have any idea what you would like to do?) and then enjoy your new life.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I'm pretty short too. In my experience they don't take you more seriously. In fact they try to call you Mrs until you stamp on them. Sometimes they continue despite being stamped upon.

[NotTheFarmersWife]

Yeah I've got no chance of getting a loan and less chance of paying it back, as things stand now!

Jackie I've considered trying to get back into education but again it comes back to money and my sad lack of it. Likewise if I just went back to the sort of job I did before, I'd not even earn enough to cover the childcare. I can see the value in working at a loss if you're doing to maintain a career, but I never had one, just a succession of vaguely crap jobs. Actually I think it would be more practical to try and study with a view to launching a career of some description in a few years when the smallholding is up and running, dp could go part-time to take over some of the farm stuff.

Thank you Chunderella that is useful info. Seems like it would be a great deal of work just for the sake of not getting married.

And yes FOG I have definitely noticed that about some people being more respectful of marriage than non-married long term relationships. I have to admit I wonder if I will feel more grown up for getting married! I would also be interested to know if people would take me more seriously if I were to wear a wedding ring - I am really short and seem to be perceived to be younger than I am and I have always felt like people don't actually consider me to be a real adult. (Or maybe I just have a complex about my height that makes me paranoid, who knows )

[mummytime]

Marriage - quick and can be cheap way of getting the legals sorted.

Civil Partnership - should be for heterosexuals as well, BUT would still have the same problem it has for Homosexual couples. That is it is not widely accepted in other countries - can cause problems if you are trying to get a Visa etc. (I have a friend whose marriage broke down, partly because she qualified as a teacher by GTA not PGCE and her qualification wasn't accepted overseas.)

I have also heard in places (at least some) with common law marriage, that you still have to "divorce" to dissolve it. And of people who didn't realise by moving across a US state line they were now "common law married", until they tried to get married properly to someone else.

[ChunkyPickle]

The trouble with the loan idea is that she is going to put all the grunt work in, which in that scenario she would presumably pay herself for, in effect from a loan - it's a lot of hoops to go through to give a bank 7% and the tax man even more.

I wonder if you could do some kind of share style thing, where for each month you work the farm you officially gain a % ownership - kind of a 'work to buy' arrangement

All a bit ridiculous though when a quick registry office jobbie will do all of that without the shenanigans, especially if you're both amenable to it.

[FuckOffGroundhog]

*best wishes to the bride

[FuckOffGroundhog]

Yes, to everything shaska said.

Also I do think think there is a "privilege" that comes with marriage. It's bullshit of course, because you can meet someone and marry them the next day and your relationship is certainly not any more important than the couple next door who have been unmarried but living together for 10 years. Bt people do seem to treat your relationship with more respect. It is a bit odd.

I'm sure traditionally it was considered bad manners back home to say "congratulations" to the to bride. I think you are supposed to send best wishes and congratulate the groom for being so lucky

[Yops]

As your partner is putting up the money, why not take out a loan to match his financial input, then set up as a 50/50 business under a contract? Then you both have equal risk and equal reward.

[Jackieharris]

You're only 30. If you messed up your education first time there is time still to rectify that.

A marriage certificate isn't a magic pill to secure your financial future, married or not you need to be financially independent.

You have 40 years of a working life left. That's a long time to build and develop a new career from scratch.

You're young and fit now, so I can see the appeal in a 'country life' away from an office. But will you be for for that in your 60s?

Your generation won't get a state pension, if at all, until you are 70. You need to think about the long term.

[Lottapianos]

See this is another reason why I would love a civil partnership. I would much prefer blank expressions or baffled faces to squeals and ridiculous questions

[NotTheFarmersWife]

Hah yeah - I tried to casually open a conversation with one friend saying, oh this is a thing that might happen and she squealed and said 'So will you change your name then?' Yep hate the congratulating thing too - oh well done you for managing to find a man willing to marry you? WTF? I know it's not how it's meant at all but it always seem like people are thinking 'And there I thought you were a bit of a moose myself'

YY to private - I said that to DP 'Couldn't we just not tell anyone?'. He thinks I'm weird, I think.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Yes. The squeely and excitable ones are as bad as the sneery ones.

[PetulaGordino]

you don't have to tell anyone you're married if you don't want to - or at least, not anyone who's going to be sneery about it or those who might get squealy and overexcited

i have a relative who had lived with her longterm partner for about 20 years, and in the course of a conversation mentioned that they had got married a few years before. they saw it as a private thing, not secret but no need for anyone else to know until it came up naturally in conversation. my family was a bit surprised but not offended or upset - obviously you can't guarantee that reaction

obviously if you have children it's a bit more difficult to keep it quiet!

[NotTheFarmersWife]

Do you mean how people would react to a heterosexual couple getting a CP? I hadn't thought about that, surely no-one would care? I'm more concerned people will take the piss that I've bought into something I've always been rather scathing of. I can think of one or two people who are likely to make "smart" remarks about it.

Yeah, I could go back to work full-time - in theory at least, the recruitment pages are not overflowing with jobs I'm fit for at the moment. I don't think true financial independence is within my grasp anyway though tbh, I was getting hefty tax credits top-ups before DP and I got together. But I'd obviously have to actually go back to work to see how much I could reasonably earn and after a few years I might be able to make enough to make it more worthwhile, especially once the little one goes to school. It just seems a shame to give up on such a lovely (and surprisingly achievable) dream and go back to stuffy offices and pitiful paycheques because I can't bring myself to sign a bit of paperwork. I think I just have to remind myself it's a means to an end and DP isn't going to magically start oppressing me because of it and maybe like PPs it'll even end up being a nice thing for us.

[TheFriar]

Yep if there was the option in this country to have a civil partnership, that's what I would go for. (Not sure if you can as an heterosexual couple but also you have the issue of how people would respond to that, ie work and so on).

Otherwise, as Petula said it's the best way to get some protection just in case. The other, as you suggested, is to work (full time!) so you are financially independant, be sure that all assets are properly split between you etc etc.

[NotTheFarmersWife]

Thanks Almondcakes. I hope so too, I've already named my as-yet non-existant goats! Petula hurrah! I can leave her at home and just text her a picture of my jeans. I did wonder what would happen if I just wrote her info in the box instead of my dads. I'm guessing I'd get told off. Shaska that's really sweet actually. I guess like pp said you make what you want of it to a point. I have to say I did enjoy Carol's post. I felt bad for not responding to it but I didn't really know how to. It's good to have a range of opinions

[shaska]

I did a marriage of conveniece. It was (is?) brilliant. Honestly, I was so surprised by it - I think it must be a bit of a conditioned thing. It was just me and DH, we went away for a weekend, got married, treated it like the joke that it was, AND YET it was such a lovely time, I genuinely look back on it as a lifetime highlight.

We both felt the same as you and your DH - we loved eachother, saw no need to get married in the 'big party / Carol's weird post' way, but did need to get married for legal stuff. But when we actually did it it DID feel lovely and strangely 'real' - again this is no doubt terrible and a sign of just how deeply the bullshit has seeped in. But I don't care, because it was great.

And also - being married. I like it. It's fucking dumb, but I find there's something nice about it. Not saying I'd do it again, but having done it this once really cured me of the 'marriage is total bullshit and people who do it are a bit weird' viewpoint I'd had previously.

If both of you are on the same page, it can be a nice thing to do I think, basically. .

[PetulaGordino]

I think they are putting the mothers' names on the marriage certificate now (or soon) - there was a successful campaign!

[almondcakes]

OP, I hope everything works out for you!

I also got married in a registry office. I wore an old dress (not white) and there was no big event. We just signed it and went and had lunch with the witnesses. It doesn't have to be a big deal.

I did comb my hair.