Feeling uncomfortable with traditional fairy stories

[Poofus]

My DS has just turned 3. He has finally given up breastfeeding so we've instituted an extra story before bed instead, and I've bought two "special" big books of traditional fairy stories which we use for this. I was really looking forward to him learning all the traditional tales, but my god they are overwhelmingly and depressingly sexist! Especially in their abbreviated versions for small children, which lose quite a bit of the nuance anyway.

I'd previously made a real effort to ensure his books were gender neutral, and had renamed a few characters as "she" when obvious instances of sexism arose (Dear Zoo, anyone? Brave Firemen?). But it's a lot harder to do that with traditional tales, without mangling the story beyond recognition. Does anyone have any suggestions for fairy stories which aren't full of princesses waited to be married, or men doing fighty things and rescuing damsels? Or do I just give up on these and go back to modern stuff?

[DuchessofBuffonia]

Some traditional stories that I loved that I think would be ok (unless I'm misremembering) are:

• The Seven Little Kids
  
• Nail Soup
  
• The Selfish Giant
  
• The Enormous Turnip
  
• The Patchwork Quilt
  
• Three Little Pigs
  

Then there are some of Oscar Wilde's stories (but they are desperately sad), like The Happy Prince.

[Amethyst24]

I'm sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, although this is a topic I'm a bit obsessed with at the moment. But I have just come home from seeing this www.thealbany.org.uk/event_detail/1236/Theatre/The-Hunters-Grimm which I realise is only helpful to Londoners.

But it's a wonderful interpretation of some classic fairytales with a modern, enlightened, feminist twist, and set in a very deprived London borough, with the local community engaging and sometimes participating. It's bloody amazing. I think there is only one night left of the run when one could take children, and it's not suitable for tiny ones, but if any adults wanted inspiration about ways to narrate the stories differently this would be really inspiring. The retelling of Rapunzel made me cry.

[AbortionFairyGodmother]

Tatterhood is an anthology of traditional fairy tales from around the world that put women's actions front and center--brave, awesome women!

[Spiritedwolf]

Following :)

My 2 year old DS loves the Julia Donaldson books at the moment. Not traditional but rather good.

Off topic: I've just hidden our copy of the DVD Planes... he loves the planes... but I can't stand the "Air Sports Illustrated most aerodynamic racer" 'joke' and the disturbing sub-plot about wooing harassing the other female plane who made it clear she was not interested. Though maybe I was meant to be greatful that there were female racers unlike in Cars... I think what bothers me most is that its an entirely constructed world, the vehicles don't need to live with sexism, they don't even need to have genders... it's so depressing.

The good news is DS likes Totoro and Kiki's Delivery Service too.

[Takver]

I love the Three Little Wolves and the Big Bad Pig, it is one of my all time favourite children's books, but I think probably a bit advanced for a not-yet-three-year-old

[TheDietStartsTomorrow]

Hansel and Gretal is such a shit story for a young child too. My DD obsessed about it for ages after she first heard it. It was me who read it to her actually.

For ages afterwards she always had a niggling worry I would die and she'd be left with a cruel stepmother and her Dad wouldn't stand up for her. She was afraid she'd get lost when we went out and that she'd be kidnapped by a mad old hag. I also remember her her asking if the Hansel and Gretal killed the witch by burning her up in the oven.

All in all, a pretty violent and unsettling story for a 5 year old. It made me wonder why I told her such a horror story.

[ArkhamOffett]

The Three Little Wolves And The Big Bad Pig is good. Doesn't bring any sort of gender bias.

[pluCaChange]

Cinderella and the Hot Air Balloon

Little Red (about a boy named Thomas!)

Black Dog, by Levi Pinfold

[ArkhamOffett]

'mommy complex'



Oh bless you.

Traditional stories since the turn of the 19th C are the watered down and skewed versions.

[BertieBotts]

Nasty and uncalled for, Olivia.

[CleverPlansAndSecretTricks]

Have you seen this?

[EBearhug]

A lot of the traditional tales that we tell these days are versions which have been cleaned up quite a lot by the Victorians, Ladybird books and Disney. There's usually a lot more sex and stuff in the older versions. (See Philip Pullman - Rapunzel gets pregnant for example.)

Also a lot of the princesses in fairy tales seem to be mediaeval (from all the tiny little states round central and eastern Europe - I don't know if they were, but this just seems to match the images in my head), and many of them wouldn't have had any choice in who they married - many of them had marriages arranged for diplomatic reasons. Nothing to do with love or living happily ever after. Might be a bit young to go into the historical context, mind you...

[YonicScrewdriver]

The Snow Queen? Gerda saves Kai.

[YonicScrewdriver]

Princess Smartypants
Prince Cinders

Babette Cole

Yy to Zog

[Poofus]

In my version of Snow White she is very angry with the prince for kissing her without her consent. Afterall, he is a stranger so it is unacceptable for him to kiss her as he has no way of knowing if she is consenting or not. However, the prince realises the errors of his ways, says it is down to his conditioning and they end up together, once Snow White has told him how he should behave.

I love it! Might be a bit challenging for my 3yo though!

[cloggal]

I like Zog < shrugs >

Not perfect but the princess chucks it in to be a doctor, and drags the sappy knight with her. And the head dragon is a Madame!

[worldgonecrazy]

In my version of Snow White she is very angry with the prince for kissing her without her consent. Afterall, he is a stranger so it is unacceptable for him to kiss her as he has no way of knowing if she is consenting or not. However, the prince realises the errors of his ways, says it is down to his conditioning and they end up together, once Snow White has told him how he should behave.

[LittleBearPad]

It's not traditional but the Paperbag Princess is a cracking story. Aesop's fables would also be good

[Poofus]

Thanks for all these great suggestions. I suspect you're right, actually, and that I do have a rather dodgy edition - at least one of the books seems to end every story with the handsome prince being "given" a beautiful women to marry as part of the prize. Even Puss in Boots, which is mentioned upthread as a good example of non-sexist fairy stories, ends up with the hero being given a bride. At no point in any story does a woman actually exercise choice in who she marries.

[NakedFamilyFightClub]

It's not traditional but "The Practical Princess and other liberated fairy stories" was one of my favourites when I was little. It's out of print now but there's some copies floating around the secondhand market.

[mipmop]

I thought "Aesop's fables" too! I have a children's edition. I bought Dr Seuss and Mr Men because I enjoyed them as a child, and my 3yo really likes those. It is a lovely thing to share your childhood with your child through books. I also liked the Brothers Grimm stories and other fairy stories. I would hope that some modern children's editions of fairy tales could be rewritten in a way to keep the moral message (don't run off if your parents say the woods are dangerous) without the nonsense about girls waiting around passively for others to direct her life, and boys taking action / being saviours.

As a positive note though, even in the 70s I noticed those themes and decided they were silly.

[FloraFox]

Aesops Fables? I think they're generally quite good. Dr Seuss books are great "new" traditions (for me anyway as I had them as a child).

I love the idea that children have been hearing these same stories for centuries - I know what you mean but these stories are part of how we socialise our children. If we want our children to be different from the past, we need to change the socialisation.

I started to do fairy tales with my DCs though I dropped them for the same reason you are uncomfortable. When they were old enough to hear the stories elsewhere they were

[joanofarchitrave]

Try Puss in Boots. No morals of any kind at all, except that 'clever, convincing liars get to do the easy jobs and at all costs suck up to the elite' which at least reflects some kind of reality. DS loved it.

[BertieBotts]

I think you can think too much about it TBH. You don't have to read traditional tales, but if you do like them, just be more conscious about other books/stories that you buy to ensure a bit of balance. Look on A Mighty Girl for book recommendations.

The problem with subversions of the genre is that they don't work so well if you don't know the originals.

Just enjoy the stories for what they are - a lot of them talk about cannibalism and murder and impersonating people in order to trick someone like it's just a normal thing, too, we don't worry about that and children don't grow up believing these things are okay.