is it a feminist issue that the average woman will spend years of her life being pregnant

[PumpkinGuts]

and that none of the pharmacy companies seem to to care if we can take their sodding medicine?


Thread "inspired" by another thread. Some poor woman in chat can't take a lemsip because you can't find anything that says "yes, go ahead and take it" and doesn't pass the buck on to someone else.

I remember having a raging raging ear infection. Couldn't sleep couldn't lay my head down, and could not for the life of me get a doctor to prescribe something for the pain. Was left in a crying heap every night for days.

I realise there are ethical reasons for why they don't want to do studies..but the truth is there are woman taking them anyway can they not ask women who are going to take it anyway to give their info?


I recently have been researching cannabis for pain relief in labor and have found contrary to my previous belief that it must be fucking dangerous that it's actually had no real studies done on it to say it is dangerous for pregnant women and that case studies of women in areas where it is the life style... there is no real issue against it and the babies don't have a worse outcome than the babies who's mothers don't use it. Not to mention the coctail of real drugs and narcotics they give to laboring women that we actually know are unsafe!

AND it can be great for natural remedy for morning sickness!

[badguider]

thank goodness for the internet - most drugs do have some info out there if you know how to find and read scientific papers... I decided to take zantac and sumatriptan based on reading the papers myself. I will do the same while bf but actually for bf theres a lot of info about most common drugs on kellymom.

[5madthings]

there is querying it and then being a complete pita. me saying yes its fine i have spoken with my consultant and am aware of the recomrndations etc but to continue to go on and to try to refuse to give it to me, not ok.

[noblegiraffe]

But the pharmacist has to double check the prescription for safety, not just blindly hand out what the doctor has prescribed. The pharmacist caught a prescription for my baby that was incorrect, and had to phone the doctor to check and amend it.
So pharmacists have to make their own decision to hand over the drug too. No wonder they queried a consultant prescribing off-label, that's their job!

[BerstieSpotts]

Sorry that wasn't clear, I was meaning to say that I originally felt that breastfeeding was the bigger issue as in my experience it has been. But I have spent almost 6 times as long breastfeeding as I have pregnant - I realise this is unusual - and I had a very straightforward pregnancy and did not need to take any medication at all during it. Having said that, most people I know who BF (who I didn't meet through places like La Leche League anyway) did so for around a year on average, even if they were mixed feeding by that time, so my experience is that most women breastfeed for slightly longer than pregnancy, at least.

One of the biggest reasons that women choose not to breastfeed or stop earlier than planned to is because they are told it is incompatible with medication they are on which is not always the case. So in fact incorrect/incomplete information about drugs is restricting women's choices as well.

[PumpkinGuts]

for me breastfeeding is a bigger issue, partly because it has an image of being restrictive which puts women off but isn't true, and partly because in theory you can end up breastfeeding for far longer than you are pregnant.

it can be that some people bf for longer than pg but it's statistically the other way around for most women in Europe and the states.

thanks for the info about breast feeding network. .I'll store that away for later

[BerstieSpotts]

Actually the breastfeeding issue has made me think. I know that a lot of drugs say "Speak to your doctor before using" whereas actually doctors very often don't know or say it's unsafe because it hasn't been tested.

There is an organisation called the Breastfeeding Network who have compiled a list of every drug and painstakingly catalogued which ones have been tested, which haven't, the half-lives of the drug if this is known, all to provide information for breastfeeding women. This is an organisation founded by women, operated by women. The drugs in breastmilk helpline/information online was compiled, by women, in response to a problem that their female telephone supporters had noted.

Notice a pattern??

For me breastfeeding is a bigger issue, partly because it has an image of being restrictive which puts women off but isn't true, and partly because in theory you can end up breastfeeding for far longer than you are pregnant.

However I can see from this thread that actually the problem happens in pregnancy too and is much more widespread than I had realised.

[HowlerMonkey]

And I have just ordered that book puddock, thank you!

[HowlerMonkey]

I can understand why they are cautious, noblegiraffe, but there's caution and there's behaviour which borders on negligence.

I should not have to persuade a pharmacist that the consultant really DID tell me I could have this, honestly (not me personally but YKWIM).

If one doctor thinks a drug is medically safe in pregnancy and has let you have it then it is almost heart-breaking to find that another doctor will deny it to you based on their personal opinion.

I'm asking for a form of regulated consistency, I suppose.

[noblegiraffe]

it would be nice to see doctors/pharmacists/consultants all on the same (permissive) page when it comes to medication in pregnancy.

Medicines are licenced for use in certain groups of people, on which clinical trials have been performed. Any healthcare professional prescribing off-label - i.e. to someone outside the terms of the pharmaceutical licence is taking personal responsibility for any unintended consequences of that prescription. I can fully understand why many choose not to risk it in the case of pregnancy.

[PumpkinGuts]

I didn't have HG but had morning sickness and lost 2 stone during first trimester in my first pg, if I had known that about cannabis I would have definitely tried it.

[5madthings]

well i have carried five pregnanciex to term, to plus 42wks actually and bfed for over nine years. thats a long time and it has made it difficult at times with my eczema, asthma and hayfever and allergies plus getting pnd after no 4.



totally agree with puddock the woman is sidelinef in favour of the fetus and you are made to feel like you are failing if you want to put your own health first.

[PumpkinGuts]

I'm not advocating getting stoned while pregannt at all, the THC is the bit that gets you high and cannabis can be bred as low thc or no thc

[PumpkinGuts]

And can be taken via vaporiser I should have said.

[PumpkinGuts]

No, I was genuely the same and have never taken it during pG myself. But the studies they have done on women in countries where it is a social norm (jamaica etc) dont seem to show any difference in the child between women who do or dont. Also I think its important to say that you shouldnt smoke anything during PG. But it can be prescribed with out the THC

[TunipTheUnconquerable]

Murder - yes. I had hyperemesis. The number of times I got the thalidomide lecture....

[HowlerMonkey]

Ooh, thanks for the link Puddock!

No-one's asking them not to be wary, noblegiraffe - however, it would be nice to see doctors/pharmacists/consultants all on the same (permissive) page when it comes to medication in pregnancy.

Did you know that thalidomide is now in use again, to treat leprosy? Sadly it is still causing birth deformities - this time knowingly so.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23418102

Sorry for the digression.

[MurderOfBanshees]

Fuck taking cannabis. Sorry.

[PumpkinGuts]

MOB, I was reading loads online about cannabis for HG, it can be a wonder drug for some women. It can help them with the nausea but also increase appetite.

[TaurielTest]

This book!

"(A) friend with the terrible nausea was told that she could take a prescription drug 'if she really felt like she needed it' … she came away thinking it was dangerous for her baby, but if she cared only about herself, she could take it. Who would be comfortable taking anything at that point?" This is key – the sense so often conveyed by medicine that merely by seeking a solution for a pain or ailment, you are failing to put your baby first; that some fundamental part of motherhood is embracing a problem rather than trying to solve it.

[PumpkinGuts]

i was reading about that recently puddock. I assumed it was more to do with food items, but I'll check it out.

in some countries women on average have 5+ pregnancies, but I suppose in many of them the likely hood is any medication would be hard to come by tbh

[MurderOfBanshees]

What I find interesting is that I (and many others) suffer from hyperemesis, and as far as I can find most studies done into HG study the effect on the foetus/baby and not on finding the reasons (and possibly a cure) for HG.

Got to wonder how many illnesses that can result in regular hospitalisation get that little research into causes.

[PumpkinGuts]

probably to do with essential oils some are not recomended in pregnancy due to preterm labor

[TaurielTest]

To me, "years of her life" suggests several years rather than a couple, and I can see the reasons why it must be hard to run proper ethical drug trials with women who are pregnant or breastfeeding - but I know where you're coming from. The thing about this that I do feel is a feminist issue is the way that expectant mothers' well-being seems to weigh nothing in the balance against hypothetical well-being of the foetus, as if our personhood is reduced by pregnancy.

You might be interested in http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/sep/19/expecting-more-emily-oster-review this book Expecting Better by an economist analysing a lot of the anecdotal "ooh better not" type of thinking women are expected to accept when pregnant.

[noblegiraffe]

There's a good reason that pharmaceutical companies are wary with drugs for pregnant women and it's because of what happened with thalidomide.

[PumpkinGuts]

That's ridiculous, and how would they know an OTC drug is even for you