A really saddening conversation with a stranger today

[RippingYarns]

I had a Drs appt today, and was sat, alone in the waiting room

An elderly couple came in and sat beside me, the woman immediately next to me, the man the other side of her.

He was called to his appt and she turned to me (complete stranger) and said

(paraphrasing here, but details correct) 'Ah..I can now enjoy a few moments peace while he's out of my hair. Since he's retired he won't leave me alone to do my thing. He thinks we should do everything together, that I want his company 24hrs a day. I used to get up at 4.30 to take him to work, I liked that, it meant I had an early start to my day and I could please myself. I didn't want it to be like this, I loved working, I loved the independence it gave me. I loved my own retirement a few years ago, and the different independence that also gave me. Now the person I chose to spend the whole of my life has ruined it.I haven't seen my friends since the day he stopped work, he wants to do everything with me. I don't want to do that'

Then her DH came back, and they left. She looked over her shoulder as the went out of the door, and waved at me, gave a small smile.

Now, DH and I are nowhere near our own retirement, but I'd hate to feel like that. I don't want to feel like the 'best years' are when a woman can have her own job etc, but on retirement is given over to pleasing her partner to the detriment of her own happiness.

Not even sure this is a feminist issue, but am more interested in a feminist viewpoint of this.

Sad isn't it?

[halfwildlingwoman]

Pretty sure this won't happen to us as we both like our own space but also talk well inbetween times. My mum as this problem though. She didn't work outside the home as she has been a carer for my sister for the last 25 years, so had her way of doing things at home, the garden etc. When Dad retired he drove her mad by hanging round her all the time, following her down the garden and wanting to talk until it drove her mad! They seem to have got over it now though.

[Deathwatchbeetle]

Blimey, I am glad that won't me my life.(serial single)

I always thought men had a shed to potter about in when they retired!!!

I used to laugh at old couples in supermarkets and wonder why the old men tagged along as they were clearly useless in the shop and got told off for packing tomatoes in first then canned food. I assumed they wanted to come along or where the driver of the couple but maybe some insisted on being threre (did not want to leave wife alone???). Dismal thought.

A lot of men took up various hobbies such as golf etc. My dad became very interested in family trees (not just ours, he was very involved with helping others find theres but looking on local church records etc. My mum became a 'computer widow".

[Julietee]

I would love to look forward to a shared retirement but DH is 18 years older than me and it seems unlikely (/sad).

StickEmUp She's saying that now he's retired she feels obliged to put aside her own wants/ needs in favour of his. Society (her generation in particular, I'd think) expecting women to set aside their desires in favour of whatever the nearest dude wants to do is definitely a feminist issue. We're meant to be accommodating and pleasing, and this can express as guilt when we actually please ourselves, or, as with this lady, just going along with the status quo for an easy life. This is why men get away with evenings relaxing whilst women do caretaker tasks, and athousand other examples. Very much a feminist issue in the wider scale.

[PleaseJustLeaveYourBrotherAlon]

coockachoo have you tried volunteering to get yourself out alone? A women's shelter or something like that? Your dh couldn't follow you there!

and no, I don't think you are being mean wanting some personal space at all

[ShephardsDelight]

aw thats very sad,

I think the 'should learn to communicate better' comments are valid but , she's probably of an era where you put up and shut up.

[coocachoo]

thats true they get on your nerves u cant even hoover without moaning at you i hate retirement and iv been mrried 34 yrs i can see how divorce shoots up..

[coocachoo]

good idea thanks but i already have a labrador and guess what its me who walks her night and day still at least i get my own space then. seriously im very down just want my old life and family back i should never have moved to coast and i wish to the cosmos mydh had a pt job but he wont bother says he worked from age 15 till 60 thats enough so am i just mean be honest girls.

[MrsMaryCooper]

My aunt and uncle got two large dogs that needed lots of walking when my uncle retired. I genuinely believe those dogs saved them from committing murder!

[Phaserstostun]

Coocachoo - counselling? I can see it might be difficult to persuade him, but sometimes the perspective of a 3rd party can raise awareness of problems for both parties.

[coocachoo]

Dear ripping yarns i feel sorry for that lady you met at the doctors it could had been me it wasnt.... but i feel the same as her and its only early days my dh retired recently 4 months ago, we also moved house to retire to the seaside.... peace, walking the dog, joining clubs.... yeah it didnt happen. he just sits wwatching tv all day smoking too much and putting on weight.... i am 55 and so annoyed he is being in my mind lazy. i do all the decorating and have always worked although i havent found anything yet am trying on website. I may sound harsh and i do love him but as u get older the kind of love changes its more company.... but u do also need your own space i dont get any as he never goes out. he worked ft as a gardener and i as a cleaner. we have been married for 34 yrs and together for 41 but i feel iv lost my total freedom and i resent the way he wont even entertain a pt job. i feel iv lost my hardworking dh and gained a layabout. I miss the family as we moved here and i want my own space he constantly follows me around the house as does the dog.... mabe i shd just divorce but thats not fair either as we do care about eachother. i also have a 14 yr old daughter who adds to the problems. any advice please. i wish i knew that lady in doctors i wd befriend her gladly.

[BasilBabyEater]

Yeah, like I say you come over as not having very much empathy.

You carry on calling other people foolish if it pleases you.

[deepfriedsage]

I disagree, I believe someone is foolish for not communicating their needs. I say this as someone who was EA in a marriage. You know something is wrong and you go and find yourself and your needs, your not a child. It's not a lack of empathy issue. It's like watching someone aged sixty unable to tie their own tie, they could sort it out tgey choose not to. We are fortunate in this country to have NHS GP, WA and all kinds offree help.

[RippingYarns]

thanks for your post there grimble

sort of restores my faith

[grimbletart]

RippingYarns: I retired a few years ago and my DH took early retirement on health ground earlier than that. I was 'around' as you say in the women's lib era of the 60s and 70s, so yes, I was economically independent. But I think it comes down to the individuals.

If you are a joined at the hip couple when you were young and middle-aged then that is probably how you will remain. If, like DH and me, you had loads of separate interests and a different line of work it is unlikely to happen. We do things together now, but we also do things apart. He has his own friends and interests and I have mine.

It's a personality thing I think.

Just a view from someone who fits the age category you are referring to.

[iloveaglassofwine]

Basil, absolutely, I agree with you there and believe me I have tried. I tell them about classes and clubs for each of them, things going on locally etc. One of the many problems is that they don't have any friends of their own, they just have other couples as friends and not many of those either.

It makes me a bit sad really, late 60's is nothing nowadays. They are both in fairly good health, DF is being treated for Prostate cancer but he's not "ill" with it. It just seems a bit of a waste of a life sitting at home together, over thinking stuff, waiting for DF to suggest a joint trip to B&Q. I've de-railed the thread with my musings, sorry.

[Shootingatpigeons]

This is my life at the moment, but I am most definitely a daughter of 70s feminism. It is just a matter of being thoughtful at a time when my DH is going through huge changes in his life.

I had Cancer twelve years ago and it wasn't so much the I gave up work as work gave up me but with a large settlement for constructive dismissal (cancer wasn't included in disability legislation then, now it is and it would be much easier to ensure my employer could not ease me out as a result) and two daughters on the brink of teenage years I took the opportunity to shift my priorities and take my life down a gear in terms of stress. I have in the intervening years, as well as having the time available for my daughters, had an overseas posting, done an MA, now doing a PhD, as well as having indulged my intellectual curiosity and studied all around my subject, and made my garden into another serious project, it isn't quite yet fit for an NGS open day but I hope it will be, and we are currently living off the produce. With friends also wanting /having to cut back on work I also have no shortage of ladies to go to exhibitions, plays and even lunch with though we try to avoid the stereotype......

In the meantime my DH has worked very very hard, with long hours and a lot of stress, his choice, and the culture he worked in, one in which the self esteem (and money) gained from success and power (and being part of a senior team) is addictive. In the last couple of years that became unsustainable and it has affected his mental and physical health to the extent I was giving ultimatums. I simply wasn't prepared to live with the man he had become and so he has retired early. And he is on his way back to the man I married.

However he never had time before for a life and he has not found himself anything to put in the place of the adrenaline pumping camaraderie of his job. I have made it clear that he has to find his thing and his thing cannot be directing or derailing my thing but dealing with change on this scale is hard for him. He loves my garden but doesn't get the satisfaction of the manual labour it entails, he isn't interested in culture or academic study. So he can't follow me around but he does try and dominate the agenda with what I call the domestic shit, the stuff I minimise so I can get on with my life. Today he is managing to make getting the car repaired in the garage a full time activity, as we all know the men who run the garage are only too happy to Hoover up your time and normally I would be shouting at them to make them work around my needs not the other way around but I am being uncharacteristically laid back and letting DH do it his way. At the moment there is way too much Sky watching too, and an unwillingness to pull his weight on the domestic shit (unless it is to do with the car) but I don't intend to add to his problems by being a haranguing 70s feminist because I am being patient and I will get him there, he will find his thing, but it is going to take time......

[BasilBabyEater]

Iloveaglass, they should both be encouraged to develop their own stuff.

Not least because if / when one of them gets widowed, if they haven't got a social network outside of each other, they will be terribly isolated.

[RhinestoneCowgirl]

I don't think it's necessarily a generational thing either. My parents are in their mid-60s and both retired. They have loads of things going on in their lives, both do voluntary work and courses/classes independently of each other but also socialise together.

[SocksinBoots]

This is my life and DP and I are only in our 30s'.

DP retired from work under medical grounds a couple of years ago. He hasn't developed any interests or hobbies and spends his days watching TV mostly. If I go out he will come with me unless I offend him by, first gently and then firmly, telling him that I want to go alone. I can't even go outside to chat to a neighbour without him appearing.

[iloveaglassofwine]

Sadly, this sounds like my parents who are only late 60's but never do anything independently of each other.
I don't think it's a generational thing, my friends' parents all seem capable of doing their own thing. I think DM is so used to trying to keep the peace and being told what to do that she doesn't question it and goes along with it. This thread has made me think and not in a good way!

[RippingYarns]

Especially as women have less kids. What will you do when they leave home, move city or country? They can't pop in for an evening

this is what makes it a feminist issue though, women's lives are not only fulfilled by children

[AbiJen]

We all think we have the perfect relationship. Sometimes, it's better for us to be apart for a working day at a time, and sometimes we need a break like an evening out with our own circle of friends.

When we catch up, we enjoy each other's company because we have something new to tell the other one.

So don't assume because you have a great relationship now that it'll be perfect post kids/retirement.

Especially as women have less kids. What will you do when they leave home, move city or country? They can't pop in for an evening.

I think we need to establish better teaching of relationships to our children in general. Our children watch and learn from us. So on the one hand its something to do with the generation, but it's our culture and some of it's tradition as well.

[RippingYarns]

i wasn't with them long enough to get any feelings for how he felt, but as soon as he came back, she was up and by his side

i felt sadness, because of the way she just spoke to me, like i said before. a total stranger.

[HangingGardenofBabbysBum]

I also think it's a generational thing as much as a feminist one.

Also, as Bonsoir said, relationship.

If she feels unable to tell him to sort out his own day because she's made other plans, that's so sad.

Did you get the impression the husband thought they were happy, OP?

[BasilBabyEater]

By the way, I have to say that anyone who calls someone foolish for not having "learned to communicate their needs", comes over as incredibly unempathetic and unaware of how widespread relationship abuse is.

Just so you know.