Rape Threats on Twitter

[BitBewildered]

I've just seen this story on the BBC news app. I've not been on Twitter very much lately and am off to have a look now, but at first glance, what the actual fuck?!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23477130

[slug]

I agree with you SGB. There already are sufficient laws to deal with these incidents. To suggest more would be to open ourselves to the charge of "special pleading".

[SolidGoldBrass]

I think the idea that people have to be protected against being'offended' whether they like it or not is an equally dangerous one. We already have a hostile, authoritarian Government who are eager to increase their powers, which means we need to be a bit careful what new laws we demand.
Making threats against another person is already illegal. The police can and will act, and have done so.

[scallopsrgreat]

I agree SinisterSal. It puts the onus on the victim to deal with it too. What happens if you aren't witty? Or you get triggered? And as you say getting individuals to deal with individual issues doesn't address the societal problem.

[SinisterSal]

I dunno that sounds a bit like 'Laugh it of' to me, another way of saying 'Ignore It'.

I'm sure many many people do laugh at them at poke back as individuals. But I think it's important to give out the message that this is not acceptable, on a societal level. We don't expect black people to laugh off racism, or gay people to laugh off homophobia. Or at least, we don't expect that that alone will solve the bigger problem, nor do we see it as running to Big Daddy when they get pissed off with it.

[BitBewildered]

I agree with you, I don't want women to think they need rescuing or protecting either, and I don't really see what a report abuse button will do to stop the attitudes that drive the making of the threat. I object to the threats being made though. I was wandering about an old castle the other week and it made me think of the stocks. I would like to throw rotten eggs etc at these men. I think it's the idea of public humiliation. I suppose they could be made to stand on a stage while we all point and laugh ...

[SolidGoldBrass]

I'm still very uncomfortable with the way this specific manifestation of misogyny is being dealt with ie 'Let's Have More Censorship' with, as far as I can see, no acknowledgment whatsoever of the idea that women can fight back even verbally, laugh at the trolls or just refuse to run off crying. This idea that women are utterly powerless in the face of male violence and need to appeal to Authority (ie other men) to make it all stop... Yes, a lot of men are physically stronger and bigger than a lot of women. But a female kickboxing champion could easily flatten quite a lot of obnoxious men. Quite a lot of strong, healthy women could defend themselves physically against men who display as aggressive but who are basically out of condition and would struggle to get the top off a ketchup bottle. But the idea of women being strong and able to defend themselves without the help of a 'nice' man is really threatening to the patriarchy. Women are socialised to remember that men are big, strong, frightening and must be respected and deferred to, otherwise they will Wield the Mighty Penis against us. A swift kick to the Mighty Penis leaves the man a writhing, sobbing wreck on the floor. A good laugh at the Mighty Penis, especially in a situation where the aggressive man can't physically hurt you and doesn't know where you live, may still leave the man a writhing, sobbing wreck. The whole idea of 'men' being physically superior (in terms of being able to overpower 'women') is one that actually needs examining and demolishing, because it isn't fully true and never has been.

[BitBewildered]

I suppose this whole use of the threat of rape as a punishment or consequence of a woman voicing her opinion in such a public way angers me so much because I could easily imagine some of the men I have known over the years doing it if they could work out how to. One of the most sexist men I have ever come across is my oldest brother and I know he will be applauding these idiots and think they are perfectly justified in their aggression. I am much younger than him, and grew up watching and listening to him spouting vile shite. To be fair to him though, he hates anyone who isn't English, male and white. The cock.

[TheDoctrineOfAllan]

Sexual threats are threats of violence, by the way.

I do see "I'd like to get you in the back of my van, little lady" as beyond catcalling, moving into threat. The man saying it is saying what he wants to do to the woman hearing it, not with the woman hearing it. That's why it's a continuum. I agree that more men would say "look at the tits on that" than "stop talking about banknotes or I'll rape you" but I don't think there's a neat difference between catcall and threat, or that catcalls can't be threatening in themselves as it's showing a disregard for how the hearer feels about what's being said.

[DuelingFanjo]

'In attempting to communicate with you, the marginalized person may bring up examples of the sorts of daily manifestations of discrimination they face. Many of these examples seem trivial to privileged people but clearly reflect the way the marginalized person has been ?othered? by society. ?Othering? is a system of social markers that defines ?Us? and ?them?, neatly and conveniently categorizing people into their appropriate places within society. It?s a way of defining a secured and positive position in the world by stigmatizing ?others?. In other words, it?s the process of dehumanizing anyone different to the Chosen Privileged.The marginalized person you?re dealing with has been subjected to this ?othering?.This means that their body is viewed as public property and the personal, intricate details of their lives and being are perceived as free information.You must nod patiently as the marginalized person tries to gain your understanding of the many complicated and subtle ways this othering impacts their lives until they come across a point that seems particularly grating for them. Then you must say ?oh, but I experience that too!? '

Perhaps the best way to deal with this kind of obvious attempt to derail is to stick to the issue and ignore the derailment. But I suppose that is also an attempt to silence :(

[DuelingFanjo]

AHEM

[scallopsrgreat]

What Flora said.

[FloraFox]

So abuse directed at women is a tool used by men in a power play among themselves but somehow that's not misogyny. Ok got it. The scales have fallen from my eyes. Or not.

[Moistenedbint1]

Typo - Should have said above.. More negative macho traits are "geared towards displaying dominance in his social circle" . Positive macho traits - fortitude, responsibility, strong work ethic are laudable.

[Moistenedbint1]

We are saying that the abuse women receive is specifically tailored to them being female. And to illustrate that latter point: "I frequently see this happen to blokes on social media sites too.. The only difference being, that the threats are usually violent.. not sexual." Precisely

The idea being that women are intimidated by sexual violence and men with physical violence..

[Moistenedbint1]

Physical prowess (ie posturing instagram shots with the "ripped pecks"/new deaths head inspired tattoo) boastful pronouncements about about sports ability, greater propensity for street violence be it verbal/physical, the number of notches on the bedpost (indicative of virility..), chivalry..right down to more positive traits including responsibility, strong work ethic etc are all macho traits which are geared towards displaying dominance in his entire social circle (male, female, child.. It doesn't really matter). It's not merely women who are targeted by a macho persona. Particularly when you consider street violence, competitiveness in sports etc. They lord their superiority over their male peers... And v.much so.

Maybe in some instances there is an element of attention seeking behaviour with cat calling but I still believe it's motivated mostly by machismo.

[scallopsrgreat]

And we aren't saying that men don't get abuse. We are saying that men don't get abuse purely because they are men. We are saying that rape threats and sexual violence threats are directed at women, purely because they are women and that men feel entitled to do that. We are saying that women get abuse for doing very little i.e. walking down the street or voicing an opinion or starting a campaign (which lets face it, was only promoting women it wasn't actually removing any male privilege or anything positively scary like that). We are saying that the abuse women receive is specifically tailored to them being female. And to illustrate that latter point: "I frequently see this happen to blokes on social media sites too.. The only difference being, that the threats are usually violent.. not sexual." Precisely.

[scallopsrgreat]

I just can't understand your argument that if these men are just posturing in front of other men machismo-styley why it is necessary to do that at the expense of women? Surely if this machismo thing was just to gain male dominance purely within male company or a male hierarchy, it would make more sense to lord it over other random men and interrupt their day for no reason whatsoever, calling them derogatory names and commenting on the way they look etc?

Why do you not think that cat-calling is not "simply espoused by inadequates desperate for attention" or it isn't to manipulate/break women? Why do men feel it is necessary to interrupt a woman minding her own business and make her focus them if it isn't that they want that woman's attention to be focused on them and therefore they want to manipulate the woman??

"much street violence is preceded by verbal abuse borne out of machismo much like cat calling" I agree, but it isn't just because they are men. There will be something else involved .

[Moistenedbint1]

Woman campaigns to have a female figurehead reinstated on banknotes. Some immature, possibly inadequate individual objects and in a bid to manipulate her and the subsequent outcome (by shutting her up) he uses intimidation via threat. I frequently see this happen to blokes on social media sites too.. The only difference being, that the threats are usually violent.. not sexual.

[scallopsrgreat]

Some of the men on Twitter started off just challenging Caroline Criado-Perez (and others) with perhaps a sexist remark. They were then challenged on it and escalated to rape threats.

[scallopsrgreat]

"I've highlighted (ooooh many times now) why sexual/violent threats are espoused. You've not elaborated at all..." No you have given your opinion as to why they are espoused i.e. machismo. I have elaborated. See my post of Sun 04-Aug-13 12:17:22. I have also defined machismo.

The fact that you don't think cat calling is intimidating or based in intimidation speaks volumes. However, no-one has suggested that men who cat call will necessarily escalate to threaten women with rape. They are saying it is on a scale with cat calling towards the bottom (although of course it depends on the cat call!) and rape threats towards the top. They may do though. There is another thread currently in FWR where a woman was cat called and retorted back and was subject to abuse. Men who demonstrate this type of behaviour can and do escalate it if their m"machismo" is threatened by a woman.

This is what women experience. It is intimidating. And you are denying that which is gaslighting.

[Moistenedbint1]

In fact, men (and I use that term loosely) who make sexual threats are usually regarded with absolute disdain by their peers.. And rightly so.

[Moistenedbint1]

Many, many men are driven by machismo but very very few would even contemplate directing sexual threats at a woman..

[Moistenedbint1]

They aren't shouting at men because they are men. Why are you making straw man arguments? We aren't talking about GBH, murder, violent street crime. This thread is about making rape threats to women because they are women.

I've highlighted (ooooh many times now) why sexual/violent threats are espoused. You've not elaborated at all, other than to counter that "it's "because they are women" or that its borne out of misogyny which is over simplistic in the extreme. And much street violence is preceded by verbal abuse borne out of machismo much like cat calling.

Rape threats (unlike cat calls) aren't rooted in machismo because of the difference in motivation. As I said above - "Cat calling is often little more than crude, gratuitous sexual observations said to enhance the macho credentials of the individual in question. Threats of a sexual/violent nature often run contrary to this because they're motivated by the need to intimidate, manipulate, break the will of another or are simply espoused by inadequates desperate for attention (even negative attention)"

Perhaps misogyny does play a part occassionally but to argue its always the driving factor is both oversimplistic and decidedly erroneous.

[scallopsrgreat]

"Scallops why do you immediately equate cat calling with intimidation" Because it is intimidating. However in my post of 09:29 which you were responding to I wasn't actually doing that. But hey ho.

They aren't shouting at men because they are men. Why are you making straw man arguments? We aren't talking about GBH, murder, violent street crime. This thread is about making rape threats to women because they are women.

Why don't you answer the questions asked MB?

[BitBewildered]

Perhaps you should start your own thread. Your comments have fuck all to do with this one. I stand by my post above. And I've not insulted you. Perhaps learn to read.