Would anyone like to join in an effort to convince retailers to stop categorizing toys by gender?

[OneHandWavingFree]

Following on from this thread and similar ones, a few of us are interested in discussing ways to send a message to retailers that it is not acceptable to designate 'boys' and 'girls' toy aisles which reinforce the message that science and adventure are "boys stuff", while girls should be primarily occupied with looking 'sexy' or practicing for domestic drudgery.

The first steps might be to draft a letter and identify a few retailers to target for an email campaign. Other ideas of how to get the message across are very welcome too, though.

Would anyone like to join in?

I'm in. There is no need for it at all, and it's damaging to both girls and boys.

Someone on another related thread linked to the 1976 Argos catalogue. There was not much there but none of it was pink.

In the 1970s nothing was pink. We had Fisher Price - Treehouse, School, phone etc Lego - multi-coloured. We didn't WEAR pink. None of my childhood photos has me dressed in a princessy way.

Of course I don't believe that women should be chained to the kitchen sink and should have their husbands dinner on the table when he gets home from work. This is despite being brought up in a world where toys are categorized by gender. This was all made possible by my parents who had the intelligence to teach me, my brothers and my sister the difference between the fantasy of play and the reality of modern life. Just because someone doesn't share the same ideas as other people, it doesn't make them a ridiculous fuckwit. You are all spouting on about equal rights yet won't even consider the views of anyone who dares to have a different opinion. How is that demonstrating equal rights? We all have the right to an opinion, whether we are fuckwits or not. I might disagree as to whether this subject should be made into a big issue but I haven't personally attacked anyone, calling them names, that's below me. Is this what you teach your children? How to swear and pick on the minority and not to allow anyone to have an opinion unless it ties in completely with theirs?
I do agree that children should be allowed to play with whatever toys they want to as long as they're safe, I'm on board with that. Most of the time though, boys will choose boys toys and girls will choose girls toys, it's just the way they are and they have the intelligence to understand that they are just playing, it's not real life.
I'm sorry you feel the need to say the things you do to me, I'm not trying to annoy you, I'm just offering an opinion is all. I thought that was what these sites were for. Am I wrong? Are people that have the courage to swim against the current not welcome here? I'm not a bad person, I do believe in equal rights, I bought my three grandchildren football kits, which are stereotypically gifts for boys for their birthdays and I didn't buy pink ones for the 2 girls either. I do understand the issue but feel there are much more important things to worry about. Children are educated well enough to know that just because girls like dolls and boys like cars that these aren't the rolls they have to fill when they reach adulthood. Like I already said, give them some credit, they get it.

I'm so in. It would be great to do something collectively. The whole thing drives me crazy. What annoys me so much about the perfume/beauty science kits (and that awful misguided campaign to get girls into science -does anyone remember the name?) is the implication that girls are so shallow that they will only be interested in science if it relates to beauty.

As with the Lego friends palava, we have to make companies see that the way to get girls on board is not to market to them specifically by adding pink frills but to include them in the mainstream. Boys and girls playing with Lego together.

Aside from the fantastic ideas posted, what about targeting a particular gendered product then bombarding it with negative reviews, like those hilarious pink biro reviews on Amazon. I would enjoy writing some for sure.

Where do I sign?! And can I add a PS to my signature that genderised toys are generally extremely ugly? It's as though they rely on pink or explosions (or that smug, rude jackass Lightning McQueen) to stand in for aestheyic and ergonomic value, not to mention workmanship (after all, after they've paid the Disney licensing fee, there's less left for other qualitative aspects).

"Children are educated well enough to know that just because girls like dolls and boys like cars that these aren't the rolls they have to fill when they reach adulthood. Like I already said, give them some credit, they get it."

So many things wrong there.

• I know plenty of boys who like dolls and plenty of girls who like cars. And I suspect there'd be a lot more if society didn't think it ok to sneer at those kids.

• There are a lot of people who would not think twice about saying, "oh you can't have that, that's for boys/girls". Where do you think they get that idea from if not from shops aiming toys at specific genders?

• There are still people out there who think there are such things as girls/boys hobbies/jobs/interests, and will not entertain any different. Again, gendered toys is a part of this problem.

I feel very strongly about this issue. I have only a son and I think your points are excellent OP. I also hate how girls' toys are sold as being about attractiveness etc but personally I have a boy, so I notice it from the opposite side. I feel the message we are sending boys about being nurturing/creative etc not being manly is something that has a lifelong effect too.

My toddler son has two parents who both work. We both clean the house. We both wipe his bum. We both cook. He both push the buggy and snuggle him at night. His dad says how much he loves him all the time and hugs him all the time, as do I. To him, grown ups can live pretty similar lives regardless of gender and both can be nurturing and emotional.

So it depresses me that DS' three year old female cousin tells him he can't like Peppa Pig as she is for girls and he will have to like George because boys can only like George. My stepsister complains that she doesn't know what to buy him because she doesn't know what boys like. He likes reading, arty stuff, role play, throwing a ball - exactly the same as her daughter!!!

It depresses me that while all the science kits may be for boys (I had all those, not my brother, by the way) all the crafty kits are pink and purple for girls.

I disagree entirely with you stumpy. I'm not saying anything to you apart from disagreeing as you're entitled to your view obviouly, but I do not share it. I don't think that most of the time, boys choose boys' toys and girls choose girls' toys. I think kids love all kinds of toys and I just think you are limiting their imagination by categorising them by gender.

But then my brother did build a rampaging army as a child out of dinosaurs and My Little Ponies as he thought the ponies looked like they could deal with troublemakers.....

Marking place but count me in

"Children are educated well enough to know that just because girls like dolls and boys like cars that these aren't the rolls they have to fill when they reach adulthood. Like I already said, give them some credit, they get it."
But stumpy I don't think they do get it, no matter how intelligent they are. They're kids. And it's our job to make sure they have the freedom to develop their individual talents.

Also if, as you say, children do not take these ideas of gender roles into adulthood, then what is the point of having them in their childhood toys?

I'm glad you weren't affected by this type of thing in your childhood. You obviously have a different personality/experience combo than me. But I was affected by it and so were many of us. I wouldn't have been able to articulate that discomfort as a child, and I'm sure many children today have that same feeling. We just want them to be free to choose, to be free from the gender politics that is increasingly shoved down their throats. It's about depoliticisation really.

marking place too. I would like to be a part of this.

As has been mentioned numerous times on this thread and elsewhere stumpy. You did not grow up with this. If you have grandchildren you really didnt grow up with this. So don't say because you who grew up in an entirely different generation know exactly how things will be for children growing up today.

Halloween is right. Things are far more segregated than ever. It feels like a backlash somehow. Parading behind faux science for credibility.

Pink is only a colour after all!!

"I think kids love all kinds of toys and I just think you are limiting their imagination by categorising them by gender"

This abso-fucking-lutely!

I was talking to DH recently about the fact that all games consoles were (and mostly still are) aimed at boys. I never even owned a gameboy, and my brother did. Guess which one of us is the gamer now?

Now while some may use that as a good example of how it doesn't affect kids that much, as I obviously defied the stereotype. Take note of this, despite my natural aptitude for computers, and my love of all things geeky, I never got to pursue that love until I was away from childhood. While boys the same age as me were encouraged to play with computers, to learn programming, to own technology - I was encouraged not to.

Maybe if it hadn't been such a gendered interest, maybe I'd have pursued that love sooner. Maybe I'd have followed that path to a successful career. Maybe I wouldn't have done traditionally female courses.

Being allowed to play with so-called boys toys could have given me an entirely different life.

As it is, now in my twenties I am trying to catch up with boys who got that head start. Against younger boys who have had more tech education/experience than me. All because some people think that "boys will choose boys toys, and girls will choose girls toys".

What upsets me is why you would want to derail a movement to stop forced gender stereotypes on children. I mean why argue the point? Do you think it will hurt children to not be told what color their toys should be?

Posted too early,
there are many movements that I am not really interested in.. but unless they were going to do harm.. I wouldn't argue against them. It won't affect me. I can only assume you feel there would be a negative impact in not telling children what to play with.

I'm so in.
My favourite quote of the day is this:
"equal rights are being taken too far here."

Ah yes. Those rights are beginning to look far, far, far too equal. We definitely wouldn't want that, now.

(hand goes up)

Will keep an eye on this one. Well done for raising this. Lots of ideas so far!

I've just been browsing some major retailers for fancy dress for children to see how they are positioning the children. And so far, according to BHS, John Lewis and M&S, if a girl wants to be in the police, or be a firefighter, she has to be a Police"man" or a fire"man", it's even written on the back just in case she gets ideas above her station. How hard is it to write "firefighter"? And boys can be nurses, if of course they understand that nurses' outfits are always pink dresses, obviously.
Although it would probably be best if girls stuck to being princesses and fairies since that is clearly the most obvious vocation for girls.

And as for dressing up as a cat or a ladybird or whatever, you have to wear a frilly tutu. Because as you know, all cats are girls, and it certainly wouldn't be right to have a cat costume look like, you know.... a cat.

It's like grooming. Seriously Depressing.

Oh, mememememe.

It really bugs me that Argos classify pencils and craft supplies as girls' toys

Count me in.

Apart from stumpy there seems to be fairly unanimous support for this campaign here. Can I resurrect Onehandwavingfree's practical list of things to do:

• Email campaign targeting main offenders (to be identified).
• Campaign via a Facebook group, either a new one with a specific action plan, or an approach to an existing group with a similar concern, such as PinkStinks, A Mighty Girl, and Toward the Stars.
• Online petition via Change.org
• Some kind of recognition of examples of better practice - i.e. shops and websites that group toys by age and interest, not gender.
• See if MNHQ can use any influence to help?

• I would say don't make it part of "pink stinks" etc... (Although they could of course be supportive). It's a different campaign - aimed at retailers, and about girls and boys.

Could we start to make a list of targets:

John Lewis
The Entertainer
Tesco (?)
Argos (?)... Although they seem to do this less than they used to - have dropped "boys" and "girls" in favour of pink and blue pages

Ones that don't:

Harrods (...after a campaign...)