Mothers and travelling away for work

[Portofino]

I used to be the main earner. When DH and I both faced redundancy (we worked for same company) he applied for - and got - an inter company transfer abroad. We moved and I found another job quite quickly. But he had been able to negotiate really good terms so his salary overtook mine. He has also been promoted and has to travel quite a bit. His take home pay is about 1/3 higher than mine - but he has greater responsibility.

I have worked for the same - very family friendly - company for the last 5 years. Dd was 2 when I started and is now 7. It has worked very well - DH has been free to travel and I have had lots of flexibility to work round that, leave earlyish to collect dd and work from home in the evening when necessary and when she is sick etc. As DH is 11 years older and only 11 years from retirement age I have been happy to support this - the more he can earn now the better his pension etc.

Recently though I am aware that my career has stalled a bit and I am bored - so I have been looking out for other opportunities. I now have a 2nd round interview with a HUGE company which I am excited about. BUT - this job would involve at least 2 x 2 weeks trips to the US each year and limited travel - maybe once/twice a month in Europe. There will also be evening telecons which might mean I have to stay late - go back to the office.

I feel SO guilty! I have rarely left dd for any length of time. I have been there to collect her from the after school club forever. I have only ever been away from her for a couple of nights at the most. DH does stuff like this ALL the time - I know he doesn't feel bad about it. We can probably co-ordinate MOST of the time so he would be home - but we can't guarantee this. I would probably have to organise some outside help....

I haven't even got the bloody job yet but I feel so torn! Why is so hard for ME to contemplate 2 weeks in the US when I am jealous of DH when he has gone to NY for the same time....I feel like BAD MOTHER for even thinking about it.

[Portofino]

Interestingly - I posted about the first interview on FB and had loads of friends and family "likes" and replies - was I moving to the US, how did it go etc. Yesterday I posted again that I had a second interview, and made a jokey comment about did anyone fancy coming to Brussels to be my Au Pair. A few close friends "liked" and someone asked about the role, but otherwise tumbleweed. I felt "judged" - though this could of course be totally in my imagination. FB you know....

I spoke to my GM on the phone and she said "Oh well you won't be able to do that then" But WHY NOT? No one turns a hair when dh is in Paris or Rome or NY - even for 2 weeks. I guess I do have an element of anxiety about flying and leaving her behind.....

[Portofino]

I am not really clear on this idea of chatting up dd's friend's parents solely with a view on getting some free childcare I don't WANT dd ferried about after school really. If it is necessary I am happy to pay someone to collect her and feed her/check homework etc. I want her routine to continue. She is already at school til 5 or 5.30 - it's a long day. Better in that case to have an au pair who will collect her 3.30, do homework and play with her - though she enjoys the afterschool club. There are OTHER CHILDREN there......

[Takver]

"If dh CAN'T change his schedule - and this COULD happen and probably would - it is MY responsibility to sort an alternative. "

Is this your DH's opinion, or is it more the way you feel? Because to me, it seems like child/ren ought to be the priority to both their parents.

Not that the parents have to be there in person to do the looking after, of course, but both parents need to take the responsibility of figuring out how they will receive the care (physical and emotional) that they need. Its just not on for one parent to abdicate that responsibility.

[orienteerer]

If you really want the job go for it and everything else will fall into place afterwards.

[Portofino]

Takver - well there is the thing! I bet dh has given this less than one minute's thought. Fair enough - he needn't worry til at least after the interview - I shouldn't be stressing yet reallly. I started reading Wifework - and haven't finished yet - I need to

If you asked DH about his priorities in life I bet he would say DD and I. But in reality when it comes to activities and management of time, I suspect work and football affect the RL timetable more..... the assumption is just there!

[CMOTdibbler]

I think you and DH need to sit down and really talk about this. DH and I have an implicit understanding that DS's welfare comes first, and that neither one of us has a job that is more important than the others. Therefore, if I am scheduled to be away, dh will sort out his diary to be at school at 8am and 5.30pm (wherever he is in the middle), and if he needs extra childcare, he books it. Equally, when DH has things scheduled before me, I make it work round him.
He also cooks, does laundry, orders food etc etc when I am not around because it is just as much his job as mine. He feels very strongly about this tbh

[Himalaya]

Good luck, I hope you get the job!

I do feel a bit when so often in these conversations, the default solution is bring in auntie/granny or cobble together some reciprocal arrangement with other mums (which you, not your DH will end up reciprocating and probably organising from afar) without ever compromising the dads ability to work all hours.

What would happen if your DH went to work and said "for 2 weeks 3x a year I need to finish at 5pm- can we work out a way to make that possible?" I don't know his job, maybe it's not possible, but maybe it's not so unthinkable?

... My mum, after me working away for 4 years still says "who is going to look after the kids when you are gone?" and s when I say DH

[Bonsoir]

Himalaya - why ? My DP could never commit to getting out of work in time to collect from school and be available unless he stopped working - the type of work he does just doesn't allow for short days. The only alternative is to outsource. I am about people's reluctance to outsource childcare for older children (I have very different feelings about the outsourcing of childcare for very young children) providing the quality is good. Children don't mind their parents being away - they even rather enjoy it, IMO!

[ChristinedePizanne]

Porto - I was talking about the whole issue with childcare when working with DS's friend's mum yesterday - neither of us are able to even consider a job without thinking through all the logistics even though they are totally hypothetical. Obviously it would make far more sense to get the job first and work out how it will all pan out but I think if you are the one who is usually responsible for looking after DC in the main, it's natural to think it through first.

Anyway, that's by the by. I think you should go for it - you will work something out, either you and your DH co-ordinate your schedules, or you have an AP/babysitter for a few weeks.

I actually think it's really important for children to see that their mother's job is as important to her as their father's job is to him. And that as a woman it is absolutely fine to be ambitious and to look for new challenge even though you are also a parent.

I grew up as the DD of an expat where you live now as you know and my parents travelled a lot. I missed them when they didn't call (phone calls were v expensive then) but now it's cheap to call and you can skype for as long as you want so it's totally different. When I go away now, my DS sometimes says 'mummy I've had enough of talking to you now' and puts the phone down :( I think I miss him much more than he misses me.

Incidentally I do a lot of conference calls and have always done them from home if they are at unsociable hours.

[lifeinthemidlands]

I'm struggling with exactly the same issue. I'm the sole breadwinner at the moment, and am conisdering applying for a job that would provide much greater financial security, but would mean longer hours and frequent travel. Am trying to work out what I think would be doable / acceptable / not make the DDs unhappy. DH is a SAHP so the logistics are fine, but doesn't really embrace the "extras" i.e. friends to tea, doing fun stuff etc. I think he would struggle to put a positive spin on my trips abroad and keep everyone cheerful. Don't know at what point I think he should just suck it up and get on with it, or if it's really not the right thing for us.

[Portofino]

When DH went for promotion - we discussed what that would entail, and I knew that I would have to be there to fit round travel for example. I feel a bit that I am now trying to change the ground rules - though it is easier now dd is slightly older. Whilst dh is generally good - it is a little irksome that he has come to consider himself as more important careerwise. In fact - as the boss I think he probably has more control over his day than me (essential meetings aside) - and I can manage to keep things flexible.

[pickledsiblings]

Portofino, don't do this so that you can feel equal in your relationship. Just make sure that your DH recognises the contribution that you make to the family as equal. We don't have to compete with men for long hours and overseas travel to be equal, do we?

In our family we have have a 'Whose need is the greatest?' policy. It could be that on this occasion your need is the greatest. Just make sure that your motivation is sound.

[pickledsiblings]

x posts Porto. It is necessary and healthy to reassess the big things in your life/relationship periodically. Sometimes that results in the need for new ground rules. I think that's OK as long as you can agree on the changes.

[Himalaya]

Bonsoir - I don't necessarily mean no outsourcing - childminders, after school club etc... but the assumption that for a mum to go away you need to outsource complete wrap-around childcare (kids stay away, gran comes to stay etc...) because dad can't possibly be expected to find a way to leave at 5 every day for a week or so.

I understand different jobs are different. If you work in a service job etc...but for many people who work in some kind of office the world wouldn't fall apart if they left at 4:30 or 5. Yes they might be looked at as less driven and committed, but that happens to mums who juggle all the time.

Porto - I don't think it is changing the ground rules - as pickledsiblings said its more like reassessing what is needed. But as you say your DH has come to consider himself as more important careerwise, which is a problem.

[Bonsoir]

Himalaya - office jobs require hours and commitment, you know . I think it undermines both men and women to think that they ought to be able to fit the school run into office hours. In order for that to happen, there needs to be a major rethink of school at governmental level - individual families shouldn't feel pressurised into thinking its their fault if they cannot reconcile those logistics.

[Portofino]

Bonsoir - I don't agree really. In these days of modern technology and the urge towards hotdesking and paperless offices, you can work ANYWHERE. Well at least anywhere with an internet connection. Yes, there are meetings. Yes, it is important to see people face to face. But you COULD condence important meetings into core hours - say 10 - 4, and catch up on emails, paperwork, phone calls outside that time. And it would not matter where you are sitting whilst you did that. I know - I do this.

Yes - customer facing jobs are somewhat different and this doesn't apply if you work in retail or you are a dr or surgeon. But for MANY office jobs, a lot of flexibility could be built in with the right technology and mind set. I see no difference in being able to do a late telecon or video conference from home vs staying in the office, as long as you are not disturbed.

You seem to be saying that you need to be career driven OR a parent. Why should those pesky kids interrupt my 14 hour stretch in the office? I am important don't you know.....It's not school that needs a major rethink - it is presenteeism!

[Portofino]

I like the Belgian way of doing stuff - there is practically NOONE in the office past 5. At my employer they only care that the work gets done. You get no brownie points for sitting there at 7pm..

[Bonsoir]

Maybe you don't agree, Portofino. I know a lot of people - mothers especially - who don't agree. And then wonder why their careers are stalling...

[Portofino]

But this is a feminist issue surely - it is WRONG that this is the case! In these days where it is perfectly possible to build in flexibility, teleworking, video-conferencing to many roles, why should you need to be IN THE OFFICE for 12 or 14 hours a day? My performance is based on my work being done to a high standard, on time and on my clients' needs being met. Whether I am doing that at my desk at 9am or in my kitchen at 9pm means not a jot to anyone. But in that time I have also done the school run and spent time with my child.

Inho, we need to stop this view that the only way for women to get on is to abandon their children to granny/friends and concentrate more on changing the working environment for everyone so that being committed to your job does not mean sitting in the office til 8pm. More fathers need to be insisting on leaving early to pick up the kids and signing in later if necessary.

And if the "careers are stalling" comment is a dig at my supposed lack of commitment to my job, you could not be more wrong. My employer is VERY flexible, has a strong work life balance ethic and very good benefits. People don't leave - so there is little opportunity for promotion. Hence my desire for a new challenge.

[Bonsoir]

I don't think this is a feminist issue at all. I think this is an issue of the fundamental incompatibility of children's school timetables with parents' working schedules as they currently stand. I have much more faith in the ability of schools to adapt to parents' working schedules than the other way round!

[Portofino]

My dd's school is open 7.30 am to 6pm. I personally can't see what more the school can do to help me (unless they want to build a dormitory wing) My dd does not attend for all those hours by the way - but I am sure that some do. That is a LONG day for a child - longer than my statutory working hours - for which I actually get extra holiday. What WOULD help me in my current dilemma is a firm knowledge that my dh would step up to the plate and offer dd the same degree of flexibility that I do. But when there is this view that men (or women) can't be seen to be leaving the office at a reasonable time to meet family commitments because they will be SEEN to be uncommittted to their job (not they ARE uncommitted) - then I maintain this IS a feminist issue.

[Bonsoir]

My DP has always offered a great deal more flexibility around school than his exW - he did every single morning school run right through primary for the DSSs, he regularly has lunch with one or other of the children, he goes to every single school meeting/parents evening and is a class rep for one or other of the children every year. His exW only occasionally shows up at parents' meetings and I doubt she ever did a school run in her life. But neither of them could have managed their jobs without another adult FT at home to pick up the pieces.

[Portofino]

Does he still do the school run with your dd?

[Portofino]

I would agree that if we are talking both parents at CEO level, or top lawyers etc, you could not expect to both work and run your household without several layers of paid help. Most of us aren't in that realm though. There was a calculator on a thread recently that showed where you fit in the scheme of things with regards to earnings and our family income scores very high on the scale. Yet we still use our overdraft facility and whilst we have a cleaner, full time staff are out of our league. That tells me that there are relatively FEW families in the Alan Sugar meets Xenia league.

[SardineQueen]

I agree that a culture of presenteeism is a bad thing generally and the places I have worked it has been there - having said that not as badly as many of my friends.

So the idea was that I got my work done quickly and that left me a few hours to spend every day on the internet, chatting, taking long lunches, shopping, wandering around the office, tidying my desk. While if I were at home I could have done that stuff and then rather than relaxing and nattering and emailing, I could have been getting on with some washing, floor cleaning, ironing, childcare...

Hmmmmm

Thinking about it, isn't this the reason we have a presentee culture? Because family life is seen as second best by so many in our society? Childcare, house stuff are very low paid and low status. So my guess is that the culture of presenteeism isn't going to change until family childcare and home are seen as in some way worthwhile... A place that someone would reasonably actually want to be.

Thinking out loud there really