Libya - will it be any better for women?

[aliceliddell]

Watching the news; men with flags, men with fireworks, men in cars, men in streets, men climbing up things, men with vuvuzelas, men with guns. But absolutely no women. So when's their revolution, then?

[JennyVexestheWitless]

Gosh Alice Wyrld - your argument seems sort of familiar.

Are you saying that you don't think that the Middle East and North African culture keeps women hidden from view and that this doesn't contribute to the lack of women in the media reports? It seems to me that this is exactly on topic actually and highly relevant.

Anyway, far be it from me to suggest that you are trying to convert reality into a swingeing attack on the patriarchy (just so long as the patriarchy is white, male and middle class).

Honestly, if you want to do something about it, get a flight to Tripoli and make sure they can't ignore you. Arm-chair feminism only gets you so far you know?

It's been fun; ta ra.

[JennyVexestheWitless]

Culture isn't? Oh, whatever....

[AnnieLobeseder]

I was pondering the same thing last night. They were discussing the new constitution that the rebels have drawn up, and how it would mean equal rights and opportunities etc etc - I had to wonder if all this lovely equality and respect in the eyes of the law would extend to women. I'd be thrilled to find my scepticism is misplaced.

[lookingforwork]

I've done some off shore work with people in Libya before Feb and the majority of people that I worked with were female. Professionally I dealt with Doctors, Professors, teachers, lawyers, judges and senior government officials. Libya was one of the more progressive Arab states, Literacy in females is/was higher than other neighbouring countries eg Egypt and Tunisia. Like Tunisia the Hiijab/veil was not compulsory in fact you couldn't work in any government position if you wore one, government offices, schools, universities, hospitals. I'm not pro Gaddafi but worry that a more islamic government could come into force and things couls be worse. Lets hope that the new government have a secular leaning then womens rights in Libya will not take a turn for the worse.

[GothAnneGeddes]

Corvax, thanks for linking that, I know Yusra, she's ace.

I knew it wouldn't be too long before someone started in with a "maybe Ghaddafi would be better because they might all turn extremist now".

It's rhetoric like this which makes Western feminism and feminists so unappealing to non-Western women.

I feel like I'm spelling out the obvious, but men and women in Arab or whichever countries don't live in two separate boxes and never the twain shall meet.

Whatever freedoms you have, and yes, Libya did have a reasonably high standard of living for women, if your husbands, sons, brothers (and plenty of women too) etc are at a high risk of arbitary dentention and extra judicial killing, the downsides of the government are going to outweigh them very heavily. Then there's the massive corruption and bleeding dry of the people inherent in such governments.

Also, how incredibly patronising and insulting it is to tell the Arabs that the best they can do is a meglomanic dictator. Why stop there? Why not say they need Italy back to rule them?

[ThePosieParker]

I wonder if the actual reason we don't see many, if any, on the streets is because they're not stupid enough to put themselves in harms way!! A woman's protest is far more effective than crazed shouting.

The protests in Iraq against the war where women walked without much noise in Burkas were probably much more symbolic and effective. Strange how people listen more to elegant and poignant silence than ranting and shouting where we can all sneer at how 'uncivilised' people are......as shown in the recent UK incredibly civilised riots.

[AliceWyrld]

Which is why they need to look further than their stereotype of what 'protest' looks like.

[AliceWyrld]

There was something about this on women's hour this AM. I didn't hear it, but might be worth a listen again.

[fewcloudy]

AliceWyrld said "Maybe cos that's not what we want to talk about Jenny. Maybe we would like to take the more interesting approach of discussing the media, rather than going down some hackneyed predictable muslim bashing."

You jest surely? There's scarcely a thread on here that doesnt end up blaming the media for something. Of course the predominantly muslim attitudes toward a woman's place underlies much of this, duh.