Why women will always fall short of 'beauty'

[WeDONTneedanotherhero]

[WeDONTneedanotherhero]

Carocaro what exactly is "the issue at hand" because you don't actually seem to be making a point?

[AyeRobot]

tut, tut, all of you.

I did have to laugh at "you only have to google retouched pictures". If you don't know already that they are retouched beyond the odd blemish, why would you?

[carocaro]

No just disagree with the fawning over TBM, which I have read. Some I agree with some I don't.

Love the fact you have to resort to 'bee in bonnet/bad day/being offensive' without actually adressing the issues at hand, because you, I think, can't?

You give feminists a bad name.

[WeDONTneedanotherhero]

WOW carocaro you have got a bee in your bonnet.

"you just can't put your money where your mouth is and tell me where an acceptable line regarding beauty is, can you?"
I have no problem with natural beauty, I have a huge problem with photoshopped images being portrayed as real.

[CravingExcitement]

carocaro, are you having a bad day?
The reconstructive surgery thing was a low shot I think.
I wear makeup, I have showered, my hair is brushed. Is that allowed?
And I don't believe you have read TBM.

[msrisotto]

Carocaro - you're not the arbiter of posts! Get over the fact she just put ffs, you've been going on about it for ages!

You must be being deliberately obtuse with regards to reconstructive surgery and basic hygiene, in that respect you're just being offensive.

[carocaro]

And I don't think Dove came up with the idea of plastic tits, but thank god someone did for people who need recontructive surgery after illness or is that not allowed either?

WeDONT - you just can't put your money where your mouth is and tell me where an acceptable line regarding beauty is, can you?

[carocaro]

We somwhere between a FFS and an analytical essay would have been a good start. Either post and be prepared to debate and have people disagree or don't post at all.

So we all have to be like you and the world of the woman would be a better place, if not, everyone else is a shallow wallower using products to try and get to what you pereive as unattainable beauty and their lives will be blighted for ever? Not!

Off to slick on some lip gloss and moiturise my dry legs, is that allowed?

[nickelbabe]

I have to confess I didn't realise they were photshopped to such an extent - I thought it was things like blemishes or moles - and i've seen waists thinned - I never realised they would lengthen the neck of move her eyes!

and she was beautiful before they started on her. :(

[CravingExcitement]

But where do they get the idea from? No-one just woke up and thought, "I think I'll get my tits replaced with a couple of plastic bags" Someone sold the idea to everyone.
Surgery having a tiny percentage of deaths is reasonable, if the surgery is necessary. In the case of cosmetic surgery, it's not really is it?

[WeDONTneedanotherhero]

carocaro no I don't wear make-up any more because I don't believe I need to, I do however use soap and brush my hair as that is very basic hygiene.

You obviously disagree with my OP and that's fine but implying that people who don't realise the full effect of photoshopping are unintelligent crosses the line.

I have already explained to you why I FFS'd and tbh I don't feel like I needed to expand any further as that summed up my feelings of the clip. I didn't realise I had to write an analyitical essay on it.

[limitedperiodonly]

Sorry, here

www.newser.com/story/comments/115254/new-dove-deodorant-makes-underarms-prettier.html

[limitedperiodonly]

Dove/Unilever's Campaign for Real Beauty enrages me more than photoshopping does because it's a cynical marketing exercise.

They're flogging body lotion, not curing cancer, and I resent the implication that they think I'm too stupid to work that out.

Oh look, they've just launched a campaign for a deodorant that makes your armpits prettier.

Just one more thing I didn't know I needed to worry about. Thanks Dove.

www.newser.com/story/comments/115254/new-dove-deodorant-makes-underarms-prettier.html

[carocaro]

I didn't say I was not impressed with it, but unlike you it seems, am not treating it as gospel. I don't need to re read if to have questions if any answered. You need to make you OP better the just a FFS.

Of course there is a difference between people having tummy tucks and dying (a small % like any surgery) but are you seriously saying the Dove ad in question would make someone want tummy tuck? To over use a sunbed? To want plastic breasts? I really don't think so. You are giving no credit to the women of today and their intelligence; the one's you seem to want to protect.

I know no plastic, fake boobed health riskers who feel inadequate after watching adverts. You seem a bit Daily Mail-ish with the view that it's an epidemic taking over the vast majority of the female population. Does it occur to you that some people, a small minority of the population do it because they want to, not because they are weeping that they don't live up to an advert? It's not a case of live up to it or be doomed. And I don't even think that some of them as you put it, "feel that bad" to do stuff int he first place, they may just prefer the look and like it. You don't so why get on their case? Does fake tan use endanger life or affect your life in any way?

Tell me where the line is, because there obviously is some line that you have deemed appropriate in terms of beauty? Between not washing and a Barbie Doll somewhere I presume? Can you define what it is? And why is your idea better?

We would all look different if we had the Dove advert style treatment with hair and make up people etc, do I like the end result? not really to neat, coiffed and too much make uo for my taste - the key word in the sentance bing MY TASTE. I don' think that most women think boo hoo I will never look like that, you won't it's a different person for a start.

You seem to miss the point the adver is trying to make, which is, it takes a heap of stuff and people to get from point A to point B and that it is totally unrealistic eg: uncovering all the stuff that gets done NOT trying to get away with saying this is all real when it's not.

[TeiTetua]

We have some records by the folksinger Cheryl Wheeler, always resolutely un-glamorous. One of her CDs is called "Circles and Arrows", and this is what's on the cover:

ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Hi4jAE2iL.SS500.jpg?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[Bonsoir]

I don't spend my days looking at photos of people; I spend my days looking at real life flesh-and-blood people. The real people (who are often absolutely gorgeous to look at) are my benchmarks, not photographs. Who spends their days looking at photos?

[CravingExcitement]

There's obviously a mid point between self-neglect eg. not washing, not brushing hair etc. and feeling the need to look like a barbie doll with fake hair, plastic breasts, fake tan. Women are doing things to themselves that actually endanger their lives like sunbed use, which has been proved to cause skin cancer, or women who have tummy tucks and die or are seriously disfigured. There's something wrong with the world if women are actually feeling that bad about their appearance that they are willing to risk death to change it. Seems to me that things have gone too far. And the images that we are being sold and meant to aspire to are not even of real untouched women, they are fake and unobtainable.
I expect if african tribeswomen were to be constantly bombarded with images that are in Vogue, they would probably start to aspire to looking like those images, rather than using their traditional makeup. Obviously advertising works, or companies wouldn't bother paying for it.

[peppapighastakenovermylife]

I consider myself well educated and knowledgeable about body image etc. I realised things were photo shopped but was open mouthed at the difference in that clip! Food for thought.

[CravingExcitement]

cacrocaro, can I ask what you thought of TBM? From your posts you don't sound like you were very impressed with it.

[SybilBeddows]

I would read it again then if I were you Carocaro. It will answer your questions.
Or you could try this one, it's very good: Beauty and Misogyny

[MoreBeta]

The video was both fascinating and frightening at the same time. Nothing we look at is 'real' any more.

Having said that, even in the days before digital photography, there was always been lighting, makeup, cropping and retouching of photos.

[carocaro]

"How do people who've never used photoshop understand what it's capable of doing and how far an image can be manipulated? All they'll know is that it's probably cleaned up a bit, but they'll be unable to say by how much."

Because you only have to Google retouched pictures to see and it's blindingly obvious, without having to attend a Photoshop masterclass.

[carocaro]

"hey Carocaro, this is the feminist topic."

So no debate then? You just have to agree and rant and sneer at the world?