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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Why women will always fall short of 'beauty'

41 replies

WeDONTneedanotherhero · 23/05/2011 14:54

OP posts:

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carocaro · 24/05/2011 12:26

Don't get what you mean? Does not make me feel like I am 'falling short of beauty'? Everyone knows ads are retouched to high heaven. There is not one level to get too that we should all strive too or else. I realy don't get what your FFS is supposed to mean?

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WeDONTneedanotherhero · 24/05/2011 15:42

I ffs'd because young girls don't realise how photoshopped pictures are, it is an unattainable beauty. It is the standard the women are judged by, photoshopping or not.

OP posts:

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ilovedora27 · 24/05/2011 17:00

In my day to day life I see women a lot prettier than the end product of the ad tbh.

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carocaro · 24/05/2011 17:58

Well tell the young girls then!

All the young girls I know are fully aware that pics are tinkered with. What is unattainable beauty and why does it matter? You must think that she is beautiful and you find it unattainable. She looks good at the start and at then end, different of course, and how she got to the end is obvious. Who is judging woment by that standard? Not me or anyone I know. Who said Dove or anyone else set the standard by which we are all measured?

I think you need to give women a little more credit, we are not all divs sitting around worry we are not the same as the women in the advert.

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SybilBeddows · 24/05/2011 18:01

hey Carocaro, this is the feminist topic.

This is a good book to start with if you don't understand the points people are making here: The Beauty Myth

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sprogger · 24/05/2011 19:38

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msrisotto · 24/05/2011 22:03

Gosh, 'knowing' on an intellectual level that things may not really exist the way they appear is a million miles away from the reality of being faced with images of unattainable perfection every day. Sure I see 'normal' friends, family and colleagues but the people society aspires to, puts on tv screens and in magazines are what is held up as an ideal beauty standard and I don't actually think it is possible not to be affected by that. And it ain't in a good, healthy, positive way either.

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Gandalfthedyed · 24/05/2011 22:07

I see women more beautiful than that every day, genuinely. They are not flawless or plastic but still beautiful.

I credit young women with the intelligence to see this.
It's no different from men with chiselled jaws and hairless six packs.

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sprogger · 24/05/2011 22:21

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StewieGriffinsMom · 24/05/2011 22:29

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TrillianAstra · 24/05/2011 22:38

I don't think she looks particularly beautiful in that.

It's a valuable thing to show people, definitely, to see how much manipulation goes on.

Here are the Britney pics, although of course even without the photoshopping she already has a lot of makeup and good lighting/camera position.

sprogger - it's only easy if you know the answer! :o

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CravingExcitement · 24/05/2011 22:49

Why do advertisers pay for these images to be made, if they don't affect people? If they didn't, people wouldn't buy the products that they are selling. Women wouldn't buy makeup. It clearly does affect us.

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TrillianAstra · 24/05/2011 22:50

Makeup works.

but it's just a woman in front of a camera, doing it herself, and it has a lot of the effects shown in the Dove video in the OP.

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CravingExcitement · 24/05/2011 22:51

I would also recommend reading The Beauty Myth. I'm not particularly good at putting it into writing, but it has blown my fucking mind tbh.

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carocaro · 25/05/2011 07:51

Read Beauty Myth thanks and seen her speak at LSE. But your OP 'FFS' post explained nothing. You are not giving credit to the majority of the population who you seem to view and thick robots who succumb to big corporations ideas of beauty and wallow in selft pity if are not attained too. Is simply not the case.

So you do not wear make up, don't brush your hair or use soap I presume? Because this would be wrong?

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carocaro · 25/05/2011 07:54

Why do advertisers pay for these images to be made, if they don't affect people? If they didn't, people wouldn't buy the products that they are selling. Women wouldn't buy makeup. It clearly does affect us.

So African tribes women etc all read Vogue and Elle and watch TV and that makes them put stuff on their face? Oh I see.

Where's the line then? No make up at all, mascara and eye liner only? Maybe a slick of lipstick?

Does it every occur to you that some people like make up and hair products? And are not trying to attain to someone else's idea of beauty but their onw?

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carocaro · 25/05/2011 07:56

"hey Carocaro, this is the feminist topic."

So no debate then? You just have to agree and rant and sneer at the world?

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carocaro · 25/05/2011 08:00

"How do people who've never used photoshop understand what it's capable of doing and how far an image can be manipulated? All they'll know is that it's probably cleaned up a bit, but they'll be unable to say by how much."

Because you only have to Google retouched pictures to see and it's blindingly obvious, without having to attend a Photoshop masterclass.

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MoreBeta · 25/05/2011 08:04

The video was both fascinating and frightening at the same time. Nothing we look at is 'real' any more.

Having said that, even in the days before digital photography, there was always been lighting, makeup, cropping and retouching of photos.

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SybilBeddows · 25/05/2011 09:03

I would read it again then if I were you Carocaro. It will answer your questions.
Or you could try this one, it's very good: Beauty and Misogyny

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CravingExcitement · 25/05/2011 09:53

cacrocaro, can I ask what you thought of TBM? From your posts you don't sound like you were very impressed with it.

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peppapighastakenovermylife · 25/05/2011 10:03

I consider myself well educated and knowledgeable about body image etc. I realised things were photo shopped but was open mouthed at the difference in that clip! Food for thought.

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CravingExcitement · 25/05/2011 13:25

There's obviously a mid point between self-neglect eg. not washing, not brushing hair etc. and feeling the need to look like a barbie doll with fake hair, plastic breasts, fake tan. Women are doing things to themselves that actually endanger their lives like sunbed use, which has been proved to cause skin cancer, or women who have tummy tucks and die or are seriously disfigured. There's something wrong with the world if women are actually feeling that bad about their appearance that they are willing to risk death to change it. Seems to me that things have gone too far. And the images that we are being sold and meant to aspire to are not even of real untouched women, they are fake and unobtainable.
I expect if african tribeswomen were to be constantly bombarded with images that are in Vogue, they would probably start to aspire to looking like those images, rather than using their traditional makeup. Obviously advertising works, or companies wouldn't bother paying for it.

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Bonsoir · 25/05/2011 13:32

I don't spend my days looking at photos of people; I spend my days looking at real life flesh-and-blood people. The real people (who are often absolutely gorgeous to look at) are my benchmarks, not photographs. Who spends their days looking at photos?

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TeiTetua · 25/05/2011 13:49

We have some records by the folksinger Cheryl Wheeler, always resolutely un-glamorous. One of her CDs is called "Circles and Arrows", and this is what's on the cover:

ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Hi4jAE2iL.SS500.jpg?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

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