Social breakdown in Britain and Feminism

[SkinittingFluffyBunnyBonnets]

I've been reading up on social Breakdown in Britain...and trying to understand the contributing factors. There is little point in denying that things are quite bad....with teens at risk in so many ways and vulnerable members of society being neglected....violence inthe streets and communities which are falling apart...can anyone tell me how they feel women's position in society has been affected by the gradual decline of the traditional community?

Or any thoughts in general?

Sorry it's vague....I come here to get my thoughts crystallised! [bugrin]

[intellectual vampire emticon...with bunny ears]

[SkinittingFluffyBunnyBonnets]

Thanks for the links Prunnhilda and garlic.....

[SpringchickenGoldBrass]

Actually, though I do feel that xenophobia is on the rise again, and so is woman-hating superstition, things are still getting steadily better. Because I very much doubt that anyone can point out a time or indeed a place with more offered in the way of human rights to women (and gay men, and ethnic and religious minorities) than the present-day developed world. All these 'golden ages' always depended on having a slave class who accepted slave status (usually women).

[SkinittingFluffyBunnyBonnets]

What woman hating superstition SpringChickenGoldBrass?

[garlicbutter]

The major religions, I believe :)

[EdithWeston]

Society used to cull its young men ruthlessly through warfare.

We are now living through a different shape society as this has not been done in Europe for over a generation, at a time when the world popoulation has rocketed. I think you can fairly point to changed pressures on society in those terms.

[SkinittingFluffyBunnyBonnets]

Oh dear garlic is being a Christian completely against feminist ideals? I'm a Christian and have always thought of myself as a Feminist.

[garlicbutter]

I like your point, Edith, so I'm going to pick it up and run with it a little.

A greater proportion of men living in a society might lead to reduced competition amongst females for a mate.
This might free the females up for a wider range of activities, and allow them to channel their competitiveness in other directions.

There might be more competition amongst the males for a mate.
This might result in more male grooming activity and males trying harder to please the females.

Without war to channel male competitiveness, males might seek other outlets.
This might lead to increased civilian violence amongst males.

Received male and female values, which were predicated on a different balance of the sexes, might prove not to be useful for current generations.
This might lead to widespread questioning of gender roles and some insecurity amongst both males and females.

Historically, nature appears to have redressed population imbalances by means of disease or natural disaster if there was insufficient war or famine.
Is this truly the case, or is it just a convenient lie I was taught at school?

[garlicbutter]

SFBB, I know there are plenty of feminist christians, muslems, jews, hindus et al! I'm sure it depends on your interpretation of your scriptures. I'm also sure, though, that all religious fundamentalism is oppressive to women and is on the rise worldwide.

[HerBEggs]

I don't think it's accurate to say that society culled males.

Wars were actually quite few and far between and only a very small number of men participated in them. Even in the 100 years war, it wasn't actually going on for every second of every hour of those 116 years...It was only in the c20 that the industrialised scale of warfare was first seen.

[Xenia]

The social breakdown thing is a bit of a myth. Go out on to the streets of Victorian London. you would find women and men addicted to drink. There were openly child sex brothels. Every generation has had people who couldnt' cope. There was no past nirvana of everyone happily coupled off and coping well. Most childern under 5 died. If there is a nirvana it's now where most people are fed and people have benefits that ensure in general they don't die of starvation and people are obliged to stay with a partner who is unbearable to them.

[SpringchickenGoldBrass]

I think a lot of these myths of a golden age have arisen because the people who mythologise them lived through them as members of the privileged classes ie children of the well-off who were pretty sheltered. If you were growing up in a middle class or upper classe family in (for instance) the Victorian era or the 1950s, your life would probably have been fairly lovely (assuming that there wasn't actually a paedophile or a seriously nasty bully in the family, then it would have been hellish as there would have been no escape and you would have been blamed for any abuse you suffered rather than believed and protected) and you would not really have encountered the poor and the desperate apart from at arms' lengt such as being encouraged to put your sweetie money in the poor box at Lent.

[Xenia]

Most people have never had much money and never will. Plenty of them are doing better now than in Victorian or Elizabethan or 1950s England. Even the middle class in the 50s still had rationing and most had no servants and no central heating. The fact divorce rates rise is often a great sign of progress and means children and women are happier. It's cultures where women are trapped in marriage for life with no money or power where life is worse. Thus a high divorce rate could be something the state should show off about as a sign of progress.

[HerBEggs]

LOLOL Xenia, I hope you've shared that piece of wisdom with David Cameron.

I agree with you actually. In a way. I don't think it means that women and children are necessarily happier, but I do think it mans their expectaion of being happy, is higher.

[garlicbutter]

I'm in danger of becoming a sycophantic Xenia slimeball! (Or: I heart Xenia.) Don't agree with all your opinions, milady, but I love your awareness of the "mud that grows the flowers".

Drives me nuts that Dickens et al put all that effort into portraying the real desperation of Victorian life, and all we have left is a sanistised image of the flower girl! Still, they effected real change in his time. Maybe more commentators need to get out on the streets today ...

[Xenia]

They certainly did. Women went from not even being able to own property ultimately to getting the vote. I am sure Camerons knows lots of friends who have divorced and are happier and indeed his own mother in law I think is in that category and his wife is none the worse for her broken home.