Does anyone else find the idea of a 'dads only' toddler group irritating?

[DaisySteiner]

Have been visiting my parents and in an idle moment was leafing through a local newsletter-thingy when I noticed that their local church organises a 'Dads and Kids' group on a Saturday once a month. Apparently it's a chance for 'dads to get together and for mums to have a break' . There's a 'parents and toddlers' group during the week but no corresponding group for mums only.

Now, I can understand that it is difficult to get to know other parents if you work during the week, but what about mums? Presumably we're all at home doing the childcare? I'm also ticked off by the idea of this being an opportunity to 'give mum a break' while according to the literature they chill out, read the papers and eat bacon rolls

I'm struggling to articulate what irritates me so much about this, so I'm quite open to being told that I'm unreasonable and touchy (dh certainly thinks so!) It may be the church aspect that is riling me as I'm generally of the opinion that they are full of semi-repressed misogyny (apologies to any Christian feminists).

[ISNT]

I was going to say that I didn't see the problem until I got to the bacon sandwiches.

I love bacon sandwiches

Posters who have said it's all about the bacon are completely right IMO

Round here the toddler groups are stuffed with dads though so not much need for this sort of thing - I've never seen one specifically for dads, or specifically for mums either. They always put "parent" or even "carer" - thinking about it most groups around here are 1/2 GPs (including grand-dads!).

[sakura]

I see a problem with it, but for too many reasons to outline here. One reason is that I see this as just the tip of the iceberg of what is to come, I really do. I don't think there will be any corresponding relinquishment of economic or political power, and yet men will slowly begin to be regarded as the 'true' parents in the eyes of society and law. It's lose-lose for women.

[sakura]

I mean, women have had to put up with so much shit from male-dominated workplaces, learning how to be like men, to fit in with men, but men can't be expected to learn traditionally 'female' rules and etiquette...they have to set up a group by themselves that excludes women

[Georgimama]

There are plenty of female groups which exclude men. I think you have to try very very hard to see a mens and toddlers group, with or without bacon sandwiches, as discriminatory.

I'm just surprised one of the PC wagon on here hasn't complained that the bacon is discriminatory to Jews and Muslims.

[Goblinchild]

UQD, my OH was a SAHD with our first and hated going to M&T groups.

'As it happens I was lucky when I went to toddler groups with DD, as I knew two women there who were already DW's friends, and this somewhat lessened my potential for being a weirdo, inadequate or sexual predator. But I know full well this is not a lot of dads' experience. (Anyone remember the episode of "Cold Feet" with Adam going to the toddler group? It's often a bit like that at first...)

If the man isn't particularly chatty and a social animal with lots of casual conversation gambits, the hostility often doesn't change.

[snowflake69]

It is done by Surestart in our area and has been made to get teen dads and other marginalised groups to engage with services. Many have experienced poor parenting themselves and by encouraging them to participate it can try and build relationships with families and help them feel part of the community.

We have many dads who have been through the care system or ones that have no parenting model in which to copy. Through getting them to groups like this it gives a chance to get the dads to do one to one if needed and to help them. As many men find it more difficult to open up emotionally and are often harder to reach, especially the very young dads. We have this group at my work and I think it is really beneficial to children and families.

[UnquietDad]

I think what people are objecting to is that it sounds more fun than their group and they secretly wish theirs was more like that :)

[Goblinchild]

Nothing to stop them having bacon sarnies and pitching in if they wanted to, UQD.

[Georgimama]

All power to anyone who goes to parent and toddler groups. I found them a special kind of hell.

[UnquietDad]

Damn, I really want a bacon sandwich now.

[JosieRosie]

I work for SureStart Children's Centres - every single piece of our publicity including signs on buildings includes the phrase - '....welcomes all mums/dads/carers'. How much clearer could we make it that dads are extremely welcome at our services?? Yet dad attendance is probably around 5% of total parent attendance, which I find immensely frustrating.

I understand that some dads find it all a bit awkward, but as other posters have said, mums are expected to just get on with it and don't get rewarded or made out to be heroes just for spending time with their children.

[ISNT]

Hmmm if it is true as the OP says that the men get bacon sandwiches paid for by the church while the women don't, then that is a reason to feel a little put out!

I am just trying to clarify some thoughts in my mind about these bacon sandwiches. And how they're for the men. Women get biscuits. Why not bacon sandwiches? Might start a thread later. Food is very important, after all

[snowflake69]

Josierosie - I work there too but I think it is daunting for men to come in to a place with all female staff and nearly all female group attendees. It is a good thing I think if it helps them to engage in services especially the most vulnerable.

[Goblinchild]

Dh wasn't made out to be a hero, he was made to feel very odd and pervy, especially when others were changing nappies on babies, talking about women's things and generally glaring at him with suspicion whenever he helped DD interact with another child.
No doubt they were operating on their natural maternal instinct.

[Georgimama]

We don't know if the bacon rolls are paid for by the church, though. There might be a charge for refreshments, as there is at many such events. Or there might not. Perhaps the church takes the view that once a month bacon sarnies costs no more than weekly tea and biccies at the weekday group.

I still can't get worked up about it. However I also feel the need for a bacon sandwich.

[Georgimama]

Also, I will need to know if the bacon is streaky or back, and smoked or unsmoked. If it's streaky they can keep it. Cheap shit.

[CommanderDrool]

I just feel rather about it.

Why should it bother me as a feminist?

[Goblinchild]

I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell you why, CommanderDrool.

[CommanderDrool]

Actually I think it's a positive thing as there are plenty if separated fathers around who may benefit from contact with others and froma positive time with young children.

[JosieRosie]

Goblin, actually I can believe that - have heard of some very unhelpful attitudes among staff in my centres. Disgraceful really, and downright sexist, hope it hasn't put him off for life.

Snowflake, I see your point but part of me feels they should just flipping well do it! As I'm sure you well know, SureStart is the most fantastic thing and it makes me and that such a fabulous free resource is not being used by all parents. We still have parents who live in the borough who have absolutely no idea what a Children's Centre is, let along where their nearest one is. The sad thing is, these are precisely the sort of parents who need our services!

[CommanderDrool]

Many separated men live in accomodation unsuitable for young kids and this provides somewhere gor them to gave fun together.

[ChippingIn]

I think it's a brilliant idea. I think it's great for Dad's (male carers anyway) to have somewhere to go and chat with other Dads while the kids play - something that is encouraging a social atmosphere - with the children.

It would be good to have one for Mums' (females carers) only and then one for Parents/Carers.

The 'to give Mum a break' is a bit but it sounds like it's been orgnised by someone from a slightly older generation and not the end of the world.

I am vegetarian so the bacon isn't appealing , but the fact that it's being advertised as a 'social' thing and not the usual Toddler Group Helicoptering sounds great.

[ChippingIn]

Goblinchild - I'm sorry your DH was treat like that :( I haven't seen a bloke at a toddler group in years and my friends who are SAHD's wont go near them as they fear being treat like your DH :(

Years ago we had a Dad who brought his daughter sometimes, he was a Fireman on shifts so came when he could. He was BRILLIANT (not to mention drop dead gorgous!!) he really played with the kids, chatted to everyone really easily and built all kinds of things for us on his days off! Not that he had to do any of those things to be welcome - he was welcome when he first joined and sat drinking tea/eating biscuits with the rest of us - till he found his feet - then there was no stopping him!

[ISNT]

Funny isn't it, it's the norm for dads and male GPs to be doing stuff around here. I wonder why.

[snowflake69]

Josierosie - All the dads who come to the group are very low income or in some way vulnerable. The vast majority of our parents are way below the national average in terms of income or are someway vulnerable as well. We are lucky that we are in an area that is extremely well used and is used by the most vulnerable in society.

I do know that not all Surestarts are used the same but that is why I dont begrudge it for our particular area.