Object to Suit Supply which offers pornography along with its suits

[franch]

See Suit Supply - these images are displayed as posters in Suit Supply stores in the UK (including Westfield and Regent Street).

For more info and to object, visit this site.

[JessinAvalon]

Flipping heck, I am glad I wasn't taken to a parade of prostitutes when I was younger by my parents! Definitely one way to normalise the abuse of women from a young age. I don't know of many jobs where the handbook contains advice on injecting your own vagina with anaesthetic because you might be in pain but need to keep working.

[ISNT]

And an even better question, why engage with such people? There's no point is there. If some men believe that showing pornographic images to children is a worthy activity, then there's not going to be much common ground with the people here in the feminist topic.

The other interesting point about the man on the bus, is that women, and especially girls, through socialisation and pictures such as these, understand that when men touch them in this way and there is little/nothing they can do about it. Very few women find themselves able to protest. The reaction many girls and women adopt is the one depicted in these pictures - they detach themselves from the situation.

These pictures are really disturbing. If a man does something to a woman and she does not react, and seems totally detached, the message to the man should be to stop doing it. These images give a big go-ahead to men who get this response.

[fewcloudy]

Thanks, I'm proud of how my family has worked out. Why try to make up what I said to my children when we lived in Holland to suit your own argument? We said what we thought was best at the time; nothing like what you dreamt up, (sitting there in your pink velour jogging suit... )They were under no illusion it was 'a bad thing'.

TBH, the bigger embarrassment was explaining to the children WTF was going on with the large groups of UK hen and stag nights.

And hey, I didn't start off with a neat appraisal etc. I started off by saying I thought the models were all stunning, rather than minging. That's all. I just have a different opinion than yours sorry. No need to make me out as something I'm not. Chill. Do you all agree about everything all of the time?

Anyway, enjoy the rest of Sat night. I'm off to prepare a great meal for darling wife, girls on sleepovers, I think my luck might be in! Now if only I could remember where I hid that Porn for Women dvd...

[anastaisia]

I'm wondering what you'd say to a preschool child who asks about the skirt one actually.

Would you brush it off and hope like hell no one ever behaved inappropriately with them now that they've seen images that normalise it and you've dismissed it as something normal. Or sit them down and tell them that a lot of people are horrible perverts and not to be trusted and they must tell you if anyone ever behaves like that towards them. I can't think of a middle ground on it though I don't have a problem talking about sex at an age appropriate level for my dd usually - only the extremes of normalise or scare.

[anastaisia]

sorry, reading that back it doesn't make sense the way I meant it.

I mean; if I was asked by my preschool aged child there and then in the shopping centre I really don't know what the middle ground answer would be. Not that there isn't a middle ground answer; which I'm sure there is.

[sethstarkaddersmum]

ha ha, he thinks it's ok to misrepresent us but he gets all wound up when he thinks we are misrepresenting him....

I love the reasoning:
I am a man and I think porn is ok, so ok in fact that I don't mind my daughters seeing it.
Therefore you lot are wrong and porn is ok.

I agree ISNT you can't engage with a man who thinks taking his daughters to look at the prositutes in the windows is ok.

Specially when these are his first posts on MN anyway so he's clearly just come to tell the silly women porn is great....

[BitOfFun]

Why do all these porn monkeys turn up on Mumsnet's Feminism section? You've got to wonder, really.

[JessinAvalon]

Why not get everyone together and show a porn for families DVD? Nothing wrong with that surely! Wouldn't want them being repressed now, would we!

[JessinAvalon]

The thought of letting a daughter of mine stay with a man who is a porn obsessive and thinks it's ok to take girls to see prostitutes with the message that 'it's not a bad thing' makes me feel a little bit sick.

[sethstarkaddersmum]

that's right Jess because lack of access to porn at an early age causes teenage pregnancy don't you know. Scientific fact.
(and Holland has more porn and less teen pregnancy than the UK so that proves it.)

[sethstarkaddersmum]

me too Jess but we don't need to worry because he wouldn't let his dds stay with us either because we are uptight feminists and he wouldn't want his wonderfully liberated dds catching any of our prudery!
Win win!

[fewcloudy]

Hi very quickly, anastaisia agree with all you say, and personally I do the 2nd option 'lot of people are horrible perverts' etc.

My 1st posts etc were to say I thought the girls and guys in the advert looked stunning, that was all.

Had no idea this was a feminist board, only posted here when it came up as the 2nd or 3rd result when I Googled to see the pics after reading about it on BBC this afternoon. It just said mumsnet, nothing about feminists, my bad, sorry. Realise now why you have twisted what I was trying to say about Holland etc into something horrible. Have a good night all.

[JessinAvalon]

Funny that he says his wife would tell us she didn't enjoy it but with him she does and would laugh at the comments on this thread.

I wonder if that's a bit of self-delusion. Of course she'll say she enjoys it if it stops her from being called a repressed prude. Yet around feminists she would agree with us. Who is she being really honest with, I wonder?

[anastaisia]

See though - I don't want to have to bring my kids up to be scared unnecessarily or to expect the worst of people.

And I'd quite like us to be able to wander around without needing to have those conversations on a shopping trip.

Surely the key thing about freedom to - in a libertarian/liberal way - is that it shouldn't impact on other people's freedom from. My 5 year old shouldn't have to be exposed to sex on a daily basis because some people want the freedom to watch porn. My desire for my 5 year old not to be exposed to sex on a daily basis shouldn't impact on your ability to watch porn.

They aren't an either or thing - it's surely about respect for others? I mean, I get the censorship arguments. I'm not actually in favour of outright banning for the vast majority of things. But I think that as a society, and the culture of the UK is as you point out very different to some other countries, we have a collective responsibility to protect the most vunerable members of that society. And if companies, who exist only to make a profit, won't do that voluntarily because it's ethically and morally right - then perhaps they do need stricter regulation?

[ISNT]

Good post anastasia.

I find it funny that the reason for fewcloudy's first post was to tell us off for saying the women were mingers... Something that no-one had actually said!

I also think that talking about these pictures from the perspective of our society - the prevalence of rape and sexual assault, the problem with it being "the norm" amongst young people for girls basically to be coerced into sex, the recent survey that found a lot of young men (was it a quarter?) did not consider it rape to continue with sex after their partner had said no... None of these attitudes exist in a vacuum and the public display of images which very clearly show women in submissive attitudes with no sign whatsoever that they are enjoying themselves... It all adds up.

[ISNT]

Bloody hell.

[fewcloudy]

I've reflected over our meal with a nice bottle of red. SWMBO is now fully immersed in the Strictly Come Dancing experience, so I have time to come back on here and admit that I was wrong. The posters are unsuitable for a shopping mall. I realise that now and was mistaking that specific point for a wider issue.

And reading the last post makes me wonder if my porn viewing has somehow become exaggerated on this thread! Only occasional, and always as a precursor to happy sex between two loved up consenting adults! What's not to like!?

I too am a parent and worry as you do. Would hate for my kids to be fearful of all men, but also have to hope they are aware that there are good and bad in all folks, wherever they are. The same time I read on the BBC website that this suit advert is banned from the shops, I also read that a 13 year old has been raped somewhere. Scares the life out of me but what's a parent to do?

[ISNT]

fewcloudy thank you for posting that. It can be hard especially on the internet to put your hands up when you find yourself defending a position that you hadn't intended to.

Absolutely these posters are not appropriate for a shopping centre. Porn in privacy is a different conversation and not the one that we were having here (although it's usually going on somewhere on the board, and gets rather heated as you can imagine).

As for what we can do about our children - it's scary isn't it. Many threads on that as well. I think that with my children (I have two girls as well) I will try to teach them to follow their instincts - and that if they are uncomfortable in a situation, any situation, to leave. And that it's not rude, and it doesn't matter if people think they are rude. And to hope that they will be able to talk to me about things, something that I didn't with my parents, even though they were fairly open and liberal etc. Not sure how to guarantee that one, as I consider it fairly normal for teens not to talk to their parents about stuff IYSWIM.

[earwicga]

'I didn't see any photo of choking or raping; maybe we see what we want to see when we look at these images...'

Yes, because that's what I do in life - look out for rape images. It gives me so much joy.

[franch]

I'm so glad I started this thread. I feel so much better knowing there are so many intelligent, articulate women out there who feel the same.

And I'm extremely grateful to Beachcomber for posting the link to the lesspermanent blog. It means a lot to know that there are men (my DH included) who are on our side.

The last news I saw said that Westfield had asked Suit Supply to remove the posters. I emailed them to tell them I wouldn't be back at Westfield till they confirmed the posters had actually gone. Does anyone know if they have? I'll be incensed if they settle for the 'CENSORED' stickers option.

[Sakura]

HI, I received this e-mail:

Thank you for your email regarding Suit Supply.

Westfield takes seriously customer concerns and the need for customers to have an enjoyable experience when they visit our centres.

Retailers in our centre are responsible for their advertising and in-store campaigns which in most cases, they will roll out nationally in all their stores. With regards to the current advertising campaign being run by Suits Supply, Westfield London has approached the retailer to request the immediate removal of the images which have caused offence to our customers.

We assure you that we are continuing to pursue the matter to a satisfactory conclusion.


Regards,


and sent this one back:

Thank you for taking the necessary steps to remove these images. Another concern I have is that Suit Supply does not see any
problem with displaying such images around children. The company has not apologized, and is considering displaying an edited version of the sameimages.
I would hope that you could put pressure on them to create a new ad campaign, rather than regurgitate this offensive imagery.

Sincerely,

[Sakura]

what I don't understand is why cool (and most probably sexy) guys like the one who writes the lesspermanent blog don't "stumble upon" the mumsnet feminist topic. Why is it always the likes of porn monkeys (lol BitofFun)