15 WEEKS OLD AND FOOD!

[loopyredangel]

My almost 15 week old has been showing a keen interest in food for a couple of weeks now, putting hands in his mouth when we are eating, leaning forward when we have food, fussing when he sees us eating. So today I tried him with some baby rice pudding and he couldn't get enough he was pushing the spoon to his mouth, and was excited everytime the spoon was approaching his mouth. He now weighs 15lb and has been breastfed to this point and Iwill carry on breasfeeding, but is it okay to carry on feeding him, he woofed down a full tin of the small Heinz Rice Pudding. I fear the health visitors won't be happy, but DS seemed so relieved, content and a happy little boy after he got his food!

[aberdeenhiker]

true - everything I've seen has suggested that it's important to wait until 17 weeks and there's definitely no general reason to feed earlier than 6 months for every baby. However, there may be benefits in two weeks time if the OP is struggling to stick with just breastfeeding, we don't know.

And waiting two weeks is a lot different than waiting ten ... I was so relieved to find out at 15 weeks that if I could just hold out for two more weeks I could introduce rice cereal and that helped me not introduce formula - which kept me breastfeeding and was the right choice for my son and myself. Rice cereal vs. formula isn't more of a hassle.

[AitchTwoOh]

dunno, tbh, reflux aside i've seen loads of women on here contemplating weaning because of the 15-16 week growth spurt and the advice from 'helpful' HVs, and given some support on here most seem to manage just fine bfing after the spurt is over.

[Lulumama]

i think it is fair to say that no-one posts advice or info on a weaning thread with the intention of upsetting anyone, whether it be the OP or the subsequent posters

but i would feel remiss in either not posting , or posting go for it IF I did not feel that was the right , IMO and IME , advice.

people do get concerned, and rightly so , IMO , about early weaning....

as i said, we do the best with the available information, and if a majority of people thikn that waiting or riding out th e growth spurt with more milk, then maybe that is worth listening to?

there is notihng to be gained by early weaning in most cases, babies of this age are not often ready to sleep through regardless of amounts of food and milk

they are learning and growing phyuscailly and mentally all the time, and night waking and needing more food helps sustain that growth

[Bekkie32]

For me, reading through this debate was hard, as I did something I really wish I hadnt..and only due to the immense pressure I had from my MIL and the doc (because I formula feed ). So I started at the 17 weeks due to pressure and before I knew anything about open guts and gluten allergies. reading through here, is upsetting as everything indicates what I did was bad and could have potential consequences.

Loopyredangel - count your lucky stars you can still decide (and I am sure baby rice will not harm ) - in my case there is no turning back the clock . Just a very pissed off mother who could strangle her DDR time-warped motherinlaw and hang the pediatrician.

[loopyredangel]

Well he is still munching away on breastmilk, and still doesn't seem satisfied, he's been like this for days now, and through the nights, there seems to be no let up. I spoke to the dietician today and she told be to hold out until he is 17 weeks old then see how he is with baby rice and pureed fruit and vegetables, then when he is 6 months start him on finger food.
My little one has suffered quite badly with reflux, so it was reassuring to hear from aberdeenhiker. I am shattered though, this almost constant feeding is exhausting, he isn't settling,constantly fidgeting! My sacrem joint is killing me with a 15lb baby constantly fidgeting

[welliemum]

I think my previous post got lost in a flurry of posting.

Anyone saying that there's no evidence of harm in weaning before 6 months is out of date. There is now evidence.

Link is here

They studied just under 16000 babies - the biggest study of this kind to date, importantly, in a developed country (the UK).

Excerpts from the abstract:

"Data analyzed by month of age, with adjustment for confounders, show that exclusive breastfeeding, compared with not breastfeeding, protects against hospitalization for diarrhea and lower respiratory tract infection. The effect of partial breastfeeding is weaker. "

"Population-attributable fractions suggest that an estimated 53% of diarrhea hospitalizations could have been prevented each month by exclusive breastfeeding and 31% by partial breastfeeding. Similarly, 27% of lower respiratory tract infection hospitalizations could have been prevented each month by exclusive breastfeeding and 25% by partial breastfeeding. The protective effect of breastfeeding for these outcomes wears off soon after breastfeeding cessation."

They followed babies up to 8 months of age and found an effect with each month, but the effect became weaker as the babies grew older. So the effect was stronger in babies up to 4 months of age than 5-7 months, but there was still an effect in the 5-7 month old babies.

There are other studies which found the same effect, but this is the biggest and best.

So, can we stop saying that there are no risks in weaning a 4-6 month old baby - there are. Anything other than exclusive breastfeeding (ie , formula feeding, mix feeding or weaning) significantly increases the risk of being admitted to hospital with infection.

What is much more important to discuss is how you would balance that potential risk against other potential risks, eg the question of whether allergy can be worsened by holding off food, and against the fact that some babies are willing and able to eat before 6 months (and therefore presumably ready).

There are no answers in the back of the book, there needs to be much more research before it's really clear, but the trend of evidence now very strongly suggests that the WHO advice of 2001 is sound, and that the vast majority of babies are weaned too soon.

[welliemum]

Loopyredangel, big sympathy - mine both went mad around that age too with a big growth spurt. It was horrible, but in fact it did settle down and we started solids at 6 months.

They loved the taste of solids but only really started eating properly at 8-9 months - so in retrospect we could have weaned them even later if we'd wanted to (I can't imagine why we'd have wanted to though!)

So what I'm saying is, although it's horrible and tiring, the constant feeding isn't in itself a sign of needing solids - but I realise that's very easy to say once you're past the stage and hard when you're in the middle of it and desperate.

[seeker]

The DIETICIAN said start solids at 17 weeks???!!!

Give me strength!

[loopyredangel]

thanks welliemum! I have learned my lesson from feeding the other day, I think it was a case of he was behaving (and still is) so hungry and I really didn't know what to do for the best, so I tried him with something I shouldn't have (as that was all I had in my cupboard). I was desperate to satisfy his needs and that was the only thing I could do that day. Will keep battling as I don't want him to pick up on the fact I am getting stressed out. Can't wait for my pain injection and epidural pain relief!

[hercules1]

I guess dieticians are like many mws and hvs. Not necessarily keeping up to date and still spouting stuff from when they were at college.

[AitchTwoOh]

but that is related to bfing solely, yes? i always forget about that research, for some reason, i've got so used to the 'hands off/don't worry/it's all the same/don't want to make anyone feel bad' kind of posts.
something i've always been interested in as a mix feeder (i'd introduced formula yonks before the weaning stage) is if i'd been able to bf and hadn't been able to up my milk (for mechanical or personal/time reasons) at post-17 weeks then are you better off introducing some veg (when ready to self-feed) or formula? it's a really interesting area, i think.

[loopyredangel]

Yes seeker, I went to see the dietician today about my toddler who has the opposite problem of not wwanting to eat! I asked for advice from the dietician about feeding my LO and she said start him off with baby rice and pureed fruit and veg, then come 6 months old start him off on finger foods. I was quite surprised to hear it too. SHe was fairly young so its not as if she was taught old school from years ago.

[AitchTwoOh]

as i say, loopy, if you can wait with the LO then you might find the toddler ups his game.

[Habbibu]

Oh, poor loopy. Your boy will be just fine. Growth spurts are just hideous, and I've never been through one and had to manage a toddler too.

[ruddynorah]

ahem. my good friend is an almost qualified dietician and she knows nothing at all about optimum weaning age for babies, nothing about breastmilk, in fact i'm not sure what she would be able to offer in the advice for a hungry baby. she herself finds this worrying.

[welliemum]

Very interesting area, I agree Aitch.

The South African HIV study I mentioned on another thread found that the infection risk was lowest with exclusive bf, next lowest with mix feeding, and then quite a lot higher with weaning. That's the only study that has published the figures for the 3 options, but it does suggest that formula milk is closer to breastmilk (and better) than solids in that context. Which makes sense to me if you think of the proteins etc involved.

The Millennim Cohort study (the one I linked to) didn't separate mix feeding from weaning in their published results, so it's much more useful for someone who is currently exclusively breastfeeding than for someone who is mix-feeding.

I think it's quite likely that the researchers did record these separately and I hope we'll be able to see the results of analysing the effect of weaning separately from mix feeding, which would be very interesting.

Just as an aside, I think the big problem with discussing the evidence on a controverisal topic like this is that there is a tendency (very human and understandable) to make up your mind and then only believe data which fit what you did with your own children. Understandable, but we really need to guard against this kind of bias.

If it turns out that weaning my allergic children at 6 months was wrong, I'm prepared to take it on the chin. It's reassuring to me, however, that I kept an open mind and looked at all the studies I could lay my hands on and only then made the decision.

[minorityrules]

That survey surely shows the benefit of breastfeeding though??

Although if you break it down, out of 16,000 babies, 176 were hospitalised for diarrhea and 512 for respiratory problems. Those are tiny amounts of babies. It also says only 1.2% (192) of babies were exclusively breastfed for 6 months. So isn't that study more about helping mums to continue breastfeeding and not introducing formula before solid food (under 4 months)and it is the breastfeeding that lowers hospital admissions

I know dieticians and hv and GP's and I hate the way some on here believe them to be totally stupid. They are, in the main, a great asset in helping parents and famillies

Most people only go on what they have read here or on that kellymom place (which my sister, an NCT BF councillor says is dangerous) and see guidelines as rules set in stone. They are guidlines. It is universally agreed no solid food before 17 weeks but after that it should go baby by baby, some will last til 6 months and some won't

[Sidge]

My daughter's paediatric endocrinologist believes strongly that premature weaning is a major factor in the huge rise in diabetes, bowel disease and metabolic disorders that doctors are now seeing.

So the argument that "my 5 year old was weaned at 14 weeks and is fine" holds no water at all for me. Come back when they are 55 and free of diabetes and bowel disease and then I might think more of it.

[hercules1]

But sidge, people will always quote their 2 year old or 10 year old is fine so it must be okay. People don't usually get that if can have an effect when their kids are much older.

[BroccoliSpears]

The problem is that very few mothers have a realistic expectation of how much time is spent breastfeeding a baby. They feed a LOT. Particularly if you have a hungry baby (or a not particularly efficient sucker). And just when it's settling down and you're coping, they want to feed more and more. People are not prepared for this and see it as a bad thing that needs to be fixed somehow.

I remember thinking that I didn't mind how often my dd wanted to feed, but it would have been nice if someone had told me what to expect.

I wonder if people don't bang on about it because they worry it might put people off breastfeeding? It's a shame.

[Sidge]

Hercules1 - that's exactly what I mean!! We can't see into the gut and don't know whether it is ready or not.

Even just a few more weeks of no solid food can allow the gut to mature and the endocrine system to develop enough to produce the necessary enzymes etc.

[Bekkie32]

For heavens sake - this discussion becomes more and more unbelieveable.

After 17 weeks (if you need to) you should be ok with baby rice mixed with breastmilk. Choose the right product - no addded sugar, salts or gluten, no cows milk and I cannot see that a baby would die from eating baby rice or develop an allergy. Sterilize all utensils, like I did. STOP if baby develops tummyache, or any other symptoms within 24 hours.

Intestinal damage is more related to gluten. Other simple things such as vegetables not digested, will tend to just go straight through - they did when I was little, and also when I was much older (over 6 months). No damage done to me. A bit of carrott going through a baby should do no harm.

And there are THOUSANDS of people who introduce baby rice at 17 weeks. If it was so dangerous we would hear stories everyday of babies dying due to baby rice. These first foods are not dangerous, so long as you play it safe and realise the importance of waiting until 6 months if allergies run in the family. I am sure that those babies weaned early who were hospitalized due to infection or diarrhea, had non-sterilized utensils used and were given inappropriate foods, or reheated foods etc... It is all common sense. But, personally, I do not think you can really go wrong with baby rice and formula.

[Bekkie32]

I meant baby with breastmilk

[Bekkie32]

Doh, baby RICE with breastmilk

[Lulumama]

but the effects of introducing foods too early, be it rice or fruit or veg might not be seen for many years down the line, i thought that was the whole point?

surely, better to be safe than sorry > you cannot harm by delaying weaning, but you might if you start to early

i weaned by son at 5 months, and my daughter at 6, if my son has gut issues, then i won;'t blame myself, as i went by the advice given then..... you do the best with the information you have

and in my mind, the best route to take is no food, until 6 months or so... if you go the BLW route, then it might well be earlier, but safer as you are following baby's cues that he/she is ready physically and developmentally for food.